# To my friend on FaceBook who has been spewing anti-healthcare-reform messages for the past 6 months **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277 "2009-11-04T14:13:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/21 "2009-11-04T19:16:41Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Is it just me, or do conservatives seem to have no clue that some of this crap is offensive (or at least controversial). I would never consider casually sending out treatises supporting gay marriage to a list of family member or old high school acquaintance. I’d know that it is something that many of them disagree with, and that my mail to a general audience won’t sway them. But I get all kinds of crap with the latest Fox trumped-up news hysteria du jour. It is my experience that they are isolated in their own little bubbles & don’t realize the possibility exists that some of their friends may disagree with them. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/22 "2009-11-04T19:24:54Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > It is my experience that they are isolated in their own little bubbles & don’t realize the possibility exists that some of their friends may disagree with them. That’s probably it. Just like being religious is the “default state” in the US, being against Gay marriage and opposing every tax increase seem to be the default state as well. Atheists know that they have a minority position, but some religious people just assume that every _normal_ person believes in God. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/23 "2009-11-04T19:32:43Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > That’s probably it. Just like being religious is the “default state” in the US, being against Gay marriage and opposing every tax increase seem to be the default state as well. Atheists know that they have a minority position, but some religious people just assume that every _normal_ person believes in God. I had the pressman (from Oklahoma) at the printshop I managed a couple years ago ask me, “Where do you go to church.” I told him, “I don’t go, I’m not religious.” and he looked at me like I had just told him I sneak into maternity wards and slit infant throats on Thursdays. He got very cold and muttered something about, “Maybe when you’re older.” I was in my mid-thirties at the time. I’m sure that he had never in his life met anyone who’d admitted they were an atheist in polite company. I blew his fucking mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/24 "2009-11-04T20:06:03Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Because it’s only unpopular 5 year olds who should die from cancer. Maybe in your circle of friends, but at least in my community, which admittedly is rather small, popularity has very little to do with attendance. Word gets out to the school, churches, etc, and people come to help. I actually recently organized several of these this past spring for my neighbors daughter, who had brain surgery to remove a tumor. It was pretty heart warming to see people I didn’t know show up, introduce themselves to the family, who they also didn’t know. A lot of those people were from local churches. Another big chunk were Seniors who used the opportunity to not only help, but also to socialize over a cup of coffee. As someone else noted, we didn’t raise enough money to cover all the medical bills, but it was enough to make things manageable. Tough, but manageable. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/25 "2009-11-04T20:27:51Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > As someone else noted, we didn’t raise enough money to cover all the medical bills, but it was enough to make things manageable. Tough, but manageable. Wouldn’t it have been better if it saving that kid’s life didn’t have to be so tough? It’s bad enough when family has to come to grips with an illness like cancer. It’s even worse when that same family has to resort to hustling on the street corner in order to save a loved one’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/26 "2009-11-04T20:47:40Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It’s bad enough when family has to come to grips with an illness like cancer. My neighbor was in tears afterward. Not from the hardship though, but from gratitude at the show of support from the community. The hardship will be there regardless of who helps out. I think you are dreaming if you think financial hardship will ever be separated from medical hardships. But for my neighbor, the personal support from the community meant much more than a statement mailed at the end of the month would. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/27 "2009-11-04T21:06:07Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > I think you are dreaming if you think financial hardship will ever be separated from medical hardships. Er… what exactly are you saying here? Because if you’re saying that medical hardship automatically = financial hardship, there are plenty of countries around the world where people couldn’t imagine paying one cent for medical care. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to hope that someday the US will join them. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/28 "2009-11-04T21:20:16Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > there are plenty of countries around the world where people couldn’t imagine paying one cent for medical care. Care to name one? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/29 "2009-11-04T21:28:19Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Care to name one? Pretty sure **Athena** meant “one cent _out-of-pocket_”, but then, you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/30 "2009-11-04T21:31:46Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Pretty sure **Athena** meant “one cent _out-of-pocket_”, but then, you knew that. Yes, of course that’s what I meant. They do pay taxes. They don’t hold spaghetti dinners to raise money for 5-year-olds with cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/31 "2009-11-04T21:44:33Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > As someone who’s working in fundraising and teaching a fundraising course, I’m honor-bound to call bullshit on this. I’ve consulted with a number of fundraisers around here, and IME a _great_ silent auction might clear $5-10K. That’s a drop in the bucket for most cancer patients, some of whom are going to need $100-200K worth of care. And the spaghetti dinners, basket raffles, and other events usually raise less than that. The $5-10K is only if there are some seriously valuable items in the auction and there are people willing to put up serious money. If I had to use a word to describe how most families feel after a medical-patient fundraiser, that word would be “disappointed.” It is an enormous effort for very little money, usually. > > Do the math: if a ticket to a spaghetti dinner costs $20, and $5 of that is overhead, how many tickets will you need to sell to raise the $100-200K that a cancer patient might need? Hope you brought enough spaghetti for everyone, is all I can say. I had a recent stay in the hospital. ONE DAY. Tests, but found nothing wrong: $12,000 And that’s not including the doctor bills. Please…stop with the spaghetti dinner daydream. You’re out of touch with reality. (agreeing with Duke, in case that wasn’t apparent.) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/32 "2009-11-04T21:50:59Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Care to name one? Here’s an interesting documentary. > **[Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/)** > > Can the U.S. learn anything from the rest of the world about how to run a health care system? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/33 "2009-11-04T21:52:00Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I had a recent stay in the hospital. ONE DAY. Tests, but found nothing wrong: > $12,000 > > And that’s not including the doctor bills. > > Please…stop with the spaghetti dinner daydream. You’re out of touch with reality. > (agreeing with Duke, in case that wasn’t apparent.) Oh stop whining, that’s only 8,000 spaghetti dinners! 🙂 I think that is the Republican health plan BTW. But Bachman from Minnesota wants to open it to competition with hotdish. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/34 "2009-11-04T21:52:28Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > And you’d be surprised how far spaghetti dinners, silent auctions, fund raisers, etc will go. How far is that, exactly? How many treatments will it cover? Have any numbers, or just vague handwaving that smells of the rectum when it just came? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/35 "2009-11-04T21:59:13Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Oh stop whining, that’s only 8,000 spaghetti dinners! 🙂 I think that is the Republican health plan BTW. But Bachman from Minnesota wants to open it to competition with hotdish. And if everyone donates a big pot to cook the pasta in, think of the money you’ll save!! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/36 "2009-11-04T22:02:52Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Maybe in your circle of friends, but at least in my community, which admittedly is rather small, popularity has very little to do with attendance. Word gets out to the school, churches, etc, and people come to help. > > I actually recently organized several of these this past spring for my neighbors daughter, who had brain surgery to remove a tumor. It was pretty heart warming to see people I didn’t know show up, introduce themselves to the family, who they also didn’t know. A lot of those people were from local churches. Another big chunk were Seniors who used the opportunity to not only help, but also to socialize over a cup of coffee. > > As someone else noted, we didn’t raise enough money to cover all the medical bills, but it was enough to make things manageable. Tough, but manageable. The money might cover one parent’s salary while they’re home with a child that’s too sick to get out of bed, but there’s no way in hell it’s going to cover cancer treatments or complications, infections, relapses, surgeries, etc. It’s ridiculous to think of it as anything more than a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/37 "2009-11-04T22:07:25Z")
And anyway, people who have friends and family that are both willing and able to throw fundraising dinners are lucky. Not everyone has that. I would prefer for our health care system not to be primarily based on luck. Whatsit Jr. was hospitalized in the NICU for three weeks when he was a small infant, due to complications from RSV and pneumonia. The grand total was somewhere around $80,000. It is tragically hilarious to me to think of the number of spaghetti dinners you’d have to throw to cover even a tiny little fraction of that cost. There’s no way you could even get to the “tough but affordable” range. And Whatsit Jr. only had pneumonia, not a sympathy-inspiring disease like cancer, so nobody threw any spaghetti dinners for us anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/38 "2009-11-04T22:25:06Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > The money might cover one parent’s salary while they’re home with a child that’s too sick to get out of bed, but there’s no way in hell it’s going to cover cancer treatments or complications, infections, relapses, surgeries, etc. It’s ridiculous to think of it as anything more than a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. But the parents will be grateful, and the warm fuzzy that lasts until they actually do the math is worth more than all the insurance in the world! It’s like at the end of A Christmas Carol when Mary Lou Retton does her tumbling down the street. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/39 "2009-11-04T22:25:41Z")
Why are you assuming that the fundraisers are for cancer treatments? I see nothing in th OP that says they have no insurance. Of course, the out-of-pocket expenses are bound to be crazy-expensive, but why do we assume they are for the whole thing? In my experience (and I’ve participated in many of these, and, frankly, too many in my immediate family), they are to help pick up costs in addition to the medical treatment, things like replacing a paycheck that may be stopped while the parents take off work, costs for lodging near the hospital, transportation, meals eaten out of the house, things like that. And those kind of fundraisers can make a huge dent in those expenses. And, I applaud the family for at least trying to so something. Many people would just throw up their hands - I would have spaghetti dinners for the rest of my life in order to pay my expenses, if need be. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277/40 "2009-11-04T22:29:29Z")
Yeah, you’d pretty much _have_ to have spaghetti dinners for the rest of your life, if that’s how you intended to pay your expenses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-friend-on-facebook-who-has-been-spewing-anti-healthcare-reform-messages-for-the-past-6-months/516277.md?page=3)