# To my new best friend, johnnygeneric **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2002, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509 "2002-05-11T16:04:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/1 "2002-05-11T16:04:48Z")
In a recent thread about the [census mentioned in the biblical book of Luke](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=113698), johnnygeneric brings up some fairy decent points, but when I attempt to question the validity of some of his sources, he fires back : > [@](#): > > You know, this is what makes me really sick. And this kind of thinking shows the immense bias, bordering on hatred of Christian thought. To think by labeling it Christian FUNDAMENTALIST automatically suspect is unbelieveably stupid as to be beyond the pale. And later, when I attempt to rebut him, he comes back with : > [@](#): > > I’m telling you. YOU guys are the ones who are biased to the point of not even giving one inch to a valid claim made by Christianity. What’s amazing is you don’t even see how narrow-minded it makes you look. You end up looking like narrowminded, ignorant bigots. Sir … it is always best if you know the background of people you are trying to win over to your side. You’ve given yours here : > [@](#): > > I haven’t studied this in detail and may have some problems. You should know this about someone you accuse of “not even giving one inch to a valid claim made by Christianity.” I was a Christian for over 35 years. I was brough up in a conservative, fundamentalist, Southern Baptist family. I _taught_ Sunday School. As a member of Greenmeadow Baptist Church, I ran one of the best local Christian research libraries. I’ve read Ankerberg, Geisler, Walter Martin, Josh McDowell and any number of Christian apologists that you can name. In other words, I have examined every single claim that Christianity has made. In depth. Ramsey be dammed, but for every “name” that you can throw up that examined the evidence and became a Christian, I’m sure I can find just as many that examined it (myself included) and rejected some of it’s more inane historical notions. I’m sure the only option you see is that anyone who looks at the same “evidence” as you will come to the same conclusions. But the only thing you are bringing to the table are quotes from sources that I truly suspect you don’t completely understand. Having been indoctrinated over a lifetime I still have quite a bit of Christian goodwill still loitering in my loins, however your final “rebuttal” to someone questioning the validity of your sources : > [@](#): > > You’re pathetic ramblings aren’t even worth replying to. But of course you guys have the famous Madelyn Murray O’Hare on your side! Oh! Now I’m scared! has caused me to decide the following: You, sir, are an ass. Normally here at The straight Dope that would be enough for anyone to find a little amusement in, but you are not even an especially entertaining ass. Go away. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/2 "2002-05-11T16:07:11Z")
🆒 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/3 "2002-05-11T16:32:16Z")
:sigh: Why is it that so many people feel so threatened by other beliefs? (Sorry, just rhetorical musing, there.) I think it’s a plumb shame that a self-identifying Christian has to act in such a ridiculously unChristian manner. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/4 "2002-05-11T17:00:22Z")
Where are my pom-poms? (in a _high school cheer-like_ manner) Go Euty! Go Euty! Go Euty! ---
**Author:** ![johnnygeneric](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@johnnygeneric](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnnygeneric)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/5 "2002-05-11T17:05:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eutychus \* > \*\*In a recent thread about the [census mentioned in the biblical book of Luke](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=113698), johnnygeneric brings up some fairy decent points, but when I attempt to question the validity of some of… > > Ramsey be dammed… > > You, sir, are an ass. Normally here at The straight Dope that would be enough for anyone to find a little amusement in, but you are not even an especially entertaining ass. Go away. \*\* Well, that clinches it right there. I’m an ass. Ok. Fine. You’re a pathetic ass. It’s just that I’ve heard people toss out your line of reasoning and it just doesn’t wash. It doesn’t deal with the arguments. The man who was KNIGHTED for his archaeological work, and you say he be damned. Well, that’s fine. Congratulations. Your true colors come out. You have become intellectually bankrupt. johnnygeneric ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/6 "2002-05-11T17:16:11Z")
wow. ---
**Author:** ![Anamorphic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anamorphic/32/3057_2.png) [@Anamorphic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anamorphic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/7 "2002-05-11T17:17:46Z")
That’s one heck of a rebuttal there, jg. I’m convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/8 "2002-05-11T17:28:04Z")
_Worst - rebuttal - ever!_ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/9 "2002-05-11T17:31:38Z")
That poor bastard couldn’t flame a swimming pool full of gasoline if he had a trailer full of matches. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/10 "2002-05-11T18:11:39Z")
'johnnygeneric > [@](#): > > The man who was KNIGHTED for his archaeological work, and you say he be damned. Well, that’s fine. Congratulations. Your true colors come out. You have become intellectually bankrupt. If you are going to debate a point, it helps if actually bring up facts, references, and address issues. Saying that a person who has an opposing opinion or belief is a fool who doesn’t know any better does not make a GOOD arguement. If you find information that refutes an arguement post that. > [@](#): > > It’s just that I’ve heard people toss out your line of reasoning and it just doesn’t wash. It doesn’t deal with the arguments. What pray tell does not wash with this line of reasoning. Using ad hominem attacks and simply yelling that you’re right every one is wrong doesn’t make you a good debater, it simply makes you a twit. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/11 "2002-05-11T18:49:53Z")
As if a knighthood is any marker of accuracy and legitimatacy to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/12 "2002-05-11T19:05:56Z")
As I noted in the original thread, there was an older scholar of antiquity named W. M. Rams **a** y (and a chemist named Sir William Rams **a** y) who each lived around the same time. I’m going to be greatly amused if we discover that all these web pages citing the “archaeologist” “Sir William Rams **e** y” are actually confusing him with a chemist and they actually don’t know who they’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/13 "2002-05-11T19:20:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > **As I noted in the original thread, there was an older scholar of antiquity named W. M. Rams** a**y (and a chemist named Sir William Rams**a\*\*y) who each lived around the same time. > > I’m going to be greatly amused if we discover that all these web pages citing the “archaeologist” “Sir William Rams **e** y” are actually confusing him with a chemist and they actually don’t know who they’re talking about. \*\* I at first thought the same thing when I started to look around. However, as I posted in the other thread, they are two different people. The chemist (1852-1916) remains well known, and can still be found in the on-line Britannica. About the only place the archaeologist - Sir William Mitchell Ramsay - can be found is on religiously-oriented web sites; he is not listed in the Britannica’s on-line version. Hardly good evidence for him being “considered one of the greatest archaelogists of our time,” as **johnnygeneric** would have it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/14 "2002-05-11T19:38:55Z")
> [@](#): > > The man who was KNIGHTED for his archaeological work, and you say he be damned. Yeah, well, considering that Elton John was knighted for his music, I don’t see this argument as terribly persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![LorieSmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@LorieSmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LorieSmurf)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/15 "2002-05-11T22:11:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by johnnygeneric \* > \*\* > > Well, that clinches it right there. I’m an ass. > > johnnygeneric \*\* “Clinches”? “Ass”? Get it? Get it??? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! (wiping tears from my eyes), Lorie ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/16 "2002-05-11T22:24:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > **As I noted in the original thread, there was an older scholar of antiquity named W. M. Rams** a**y (and a chemist named Sir William Rams**a\*\*y) who each lived around the same time. > > I’m going to be greatly amused if we discover that all these web pages citing the “archaeologist” “Sir William Rams **e** y” are actually confusing him with a chemist and they actually don’t know who they’re talking about. \*\* It looks like he is for real as far as being an archeologist/historian. As far as the “Sir” goes, given that his conclusions (correct or not) tended to confirm the accuracy of the Bible’s history it’s no stretch that the powers that be would reward this pro-establishment point of view, at the time, with a knighthood. I’m going to reserve judgement on this guy’s stature as an important historical archeologist for the time being, however, if tomndebb’s never heard of him as this stuff is normally right up tomndebb’s alley. [St. Paul the Traveler and Roman Citizen](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0825436397/qid=1021154283/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2024190-9467855) > [@](#): > > I have been waiting a long time for this modern reissue of Ramsay’s classic work. Wilson’s edition does not disappoint. The book is beautifully printed (the old editions were so dreary) and now includes over a hundred color photos of relevant sites and images. These images are carefully placed near the texts that they illustrate. Also maps, charts and colorful sidebars have been added. Ramsay’s work in Turkey is, and remains, the basis of all subsequent investigations - and Wilson is well qualified to follow in his footsteps. This book is a must for those who are interested in the expansion of Christianity into Asia Minor, Greece, and to Rome. This edition now presents a complete picture of the life of the Apostle Paul - it is a foundational work. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/17 "2002-05-11T22:26:41Z")
Holy Mary, mother of God, prayer for this festering asshat now and at the hour of his eventual death by the Illuminati AMEN! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/18 "2002-05-11T22:33:37Z")
I read tomndebb’s point in the prior thread - never mind the part about tomndebb’s never having head of him. Here is another Amazon reviewers quote about him. [The Letters to the Seven Churches](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565630599/qid=1021154134/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_67_2/103-2024190-9467855) Edward Thomas Veal - > [@](#): > > At the beginning of the Book of Revelation are “letters” to churches in seven cities of Asia Minor, praising, rebuking and admonishing their congregations and disclosing how Christ views their works. > > To the modern reader, these prefatory letters may seem as riddling as the symbol-filled apocalyptic visions that make up the bulk of the book. But the “seven churches” existed in real locales, and Sir William Ramsay shows how the letters addressed to them acutely reflect local circumstances. > > Ramsay (1851-1939) was a prominent archeologist specializing in Greek and Roman Asia Minor. He was also a prolific writer on early Church history. “The Letters to the Seven Churches” is a superb synthesis of these areas of expertise. Its first part surveys what can be known of the places, peoples and institutions of late First Century Asia Minor. Ramsay then proceeds to analyze each of the letters, first recounting pertinent aspects of the city’s history and geography, then relating those to the biblical text. The connections are always interesting and often illuminating. > > Inevitably, speculative elements creep in. Ramsay infers much more about the “Nicolaitans”, whom the letters denounce in unrestrained terms, than the evidence seems to warrant, and his statements about the “Flavian persecution”, whose very existence is doubted by many scholars, should be read with caution. > > Ramsay took the traditionalist side in the scholarly debates concerning the early Church, but this work is not in a controversial vein. Modernists need not fear that perusing it will undermine their faith, and everyone who is interested in what Christianity looked like in its earliest days will learn much from its pages. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/19 "2002-05-11T23:08:52Z")
\<\< Ramsay (1851-1939) was a prominent archeologist specializing in Greek and Roman Asia Minor. \>\> Well, no offense, but anybody writing that long ago is pretty much out dated by almost 3/4 of a century. And it’s been a remarkable century for archaeology – we’ve learned more about life in the Holy Land under Roman rule in the last fifty years or so than in the prior 500. No matter how brilliant Ramsay was, nor how learned, a student graduating today in archaeology has more information at his fingertips than Ramsay had after a full career. You might as well be citing medical journals written in the 1800s as archaeologists. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509/20 "2002-05-11T23:20:19Z")
From the linked thread: > [@](#): > > I think the whole analysis done by the Straight Dope advisory guy is very disengenuous [sic]. It is a mistake to aver that Eutychus is disingenuous. Wrong, maybe. But certainly not insincere. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-my-new-best-friend-johnnygeneric/108509.md?page=2)