# To Non-religious- well-known religious persons you like, respect... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 6, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660 "2005-05-06T06:30:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/21 "2005-05-06T18:33:07Z")
Nope. It’s possible to believe that someone holds deepely flawed beliefs, because they are a victim of society. It isn’t their fault. It doesn’t make me respect them any less. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/22 "2005-05-06T18:37:13Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I would be interested in hearing from **gobear** , **loopydude** , and others who (IIRC) have expressed a belief that religion is a delusion/superstition/whatever: do you find yourself not respecting or liking religious people because of that? I’m one of them, and I already participated in this thread. I know several religious people in real life that I like and respect. I know several religious people on this board that I like and respect. I know of several religious people that I don’t know personally but like and respect. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/23 "2005-05-06T18:38:07Z")
Count me amongst those atheists/agnostics that judges people on an _individual basis_ and not as a group. Having said that, I don’t deny that I have little use/respect for organized religions of any stripe – though I find my dislike almost directly proportional to the member’s standing on the hierarchical scale. Turds really do float. OTOH, I have nothing but admiration for most anyone – secular or otherwise – who willingly devote their lives to bettering those of the less fortunate. Which, least we forget, make up the great majority of the world’s population. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/24 "2005-05-06T19:51:12Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] More of a survey than a debate. Off to IMHO, but keep it debate-free. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/25 "2005-05-06T20:03:01Z")
I’ll admit I have a prejudice when I learn people are religious (particularly if it’s a denomination rather than a generic “spiritual” status) but it’s a very mild one. It’s not anything I’m proud of but it’s true. However, I don’t think of them as benighted or ignorant; for my friends who are religious it’s usually more of a “will to believe” for it consoles them, and there’s certainly a lot to be said for that. (For example, a good friend who lost her only child when he was a teenager is very religious and it gives her comfort that she will see him again; I’m sure as hell not going to pee on that because “he will be with you again in paradise” strangles far more anger than “he’s decomposing in a grave and lives only in your memory”- that’s the hardest aspect of atheism, but I would argue [if this were a debate, which it isn’t] that it makes you appreciate people you love and the time you have with them all the more.) ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/26 "2005-05-06T20:52:50Z")
My girlfriend, and her family. Heck, _my_ family. As for the more famous side, USA presidents (with the obvious exceptions). Famous world leaders/peacemakers, all of this has been mentioned before, and I’ll second what **LHoD** said: > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > A person’s religiosity has nil to do with whether I like or respect them, although it can influence their actions in a way that makes me like or dislike them. As George Carlin would have us add to the commandments: “Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.” It’s people who violate that rule that I don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/27 "2005-05-06T21:14:33Z")
At dinner recently, I sat across from a man wearing an embroidered yellow golf sweater. He had the florid complexion of a drinker and a loud voice. He mentioned that he just recently retired from a large religious charitable organization and was a graduate of the Texas Christian University seminary. All my alarm bells went off, and I imagined an evening of strained conversation. Turns out the guy was great. He asked me “know how many times homosexuality is mentioned in the bible? Three. Know how many times the poor are mentioned? Three Thousand!” He told me of getting kicked out of one church for being a troublemaker and I reminded him that “the church was started by a troublemaker”. He really liked that. All in all a very pleasent and informative evening. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/28 "2005-05-06T21:17:12Z")
Hmmm. MLK, Jr. Joseph Cardinal Bernadine Jimmy Carter Dietrich Bonhoffer (sp?)-survivor of concentration camps Kathleen Norris (author and poet) Karen Armstrong(former nun, author) Dali Lama Buddha Jesus Christ Father Mulcahy Father O’Mally Maria von Trapp-in the movie oops-am on to fictional characters. sorry. but in way, don’t they count? They do exemplify the traits and behaviors that, IMO, need to be more common in “religious” people. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/29 "2005-05-06T21:18:08Z")
Maybe Robert Drinan. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/30 "2005-05-06T21:18:29Z")
shoot. Forgot Bill Moyers and M. Scott Peck, come to that. Wish I had more females to add to the list… ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/31 "2005-05-06T21:35:57Z")
\*\*Joyce Meyer \*\* (Bible thumper, but with a very human and positive message) **Joel Osteen** (Explains the "forgiveness’ aspect very well. No fire and brimstone) **MLK, Jr.** \*\*Jimmy Carter \*\* **Cecil Williams** (local, has been Minister/Pastor/whatever at Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco for 40 years. Nice message, and Glide has helped many people over the years) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/32 "2005-05-06T22:37:13Z")
John Shelby Spong ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/33 "2005-05-07T04:01:59Z")
Julius Caesar. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/34 "2005-05-07T04:34:32Z")
I acknowledge a similar prejudice (here I will substitute Dinesh D’Sousa’s euphemism ‘rational discrimination’). A lot of it depends on how I find out a person is religious. To quote a sig I saw somewhere: “Don’t tell me you’re religious, let me figure it out”. Different dynamics and time constants apply on a message board than in real life – if I find out that you’re religious from your first post here, I will withhold judgement a lot longer than if our first encounter has you opening a meeting at work with a prayer. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I’ll admit I have a prejudice when I learn people are religious (particularly if it’s a denomination rather than a generic “spiritual” status) but it’s a very mild one. It’s not anything I’m proud of but it’s true. However, I don’t think of them as benighted or ignorant; for my friends who are religious it’s usually more of a “will to believe” for it consoles them, and there’s certainly a lot to be said for that. (For example, a good friend who lost her only child when he was a teenager is very religious and it gives her comfort that she will see him again; I’m sure as hell not going to pee on that because “he will be with you again in paradise” strangles far more anger than “he’s decomposing in a grave and lives only in your memory”- that’s the hardest aspect of atheism, but I would argue [if this were a debate, which it isn’t] that it makes you appreciate people you love and the time you have with them all the more.) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/35 "2005-05-07T04:48:31Z")
Gandhi MLK Malcolm X Charles M. Schulz Dalai Lama ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/36 "2005-05-07T14:02:37Z")
> [@kevja](#): > > \*\*Joyce Meyer \*\* (Bible thumper, but with a very human and positive message) > > **Joel Osteen** (Explains the "forgiveness’ aspect very well. No fire and brimstone) > > **MLK, Jr.** > > \*\*Jimmy Carter \*\* > > **Cecil Williams** (local, has been Minister/Pastor/whatever at Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco for 40 years. Nice message, and Glide has helped many people over the years) This is actually what I had in mind. What inspired this thread was remembering back in my 1980s college days, one PoliSci Prof in my undergrad studies & one Counseling prof in my Grad studies who both liked Robert Schuller. It was especially interesting as that Counseling Prof would go into hilarious rants against certain TV preachers, some of whom I liked but I still was entertained by his rants- BUT he expressed some admiration for Schuller’s message. I was not implying that non-religious people couldn’t like or respect religious people. I was more looking for “I don’t agree with all Public Religious Personality says or does, but all in all, I admire their convictions & think they are basically helping people.” Btw, I’m more than willing to go the other way- Carl Sagan immediately springs to mind as someone whose work I admired & who I thought was a pretty decent person. Ayn Rand for her writing, tho I’m sure she would be horrified by my irrationality & I’d be horrified by her treatment of dissidents from her Collective. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/37 "2005-05-08T01:15:01Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > John Shelby Spong I saw his book, _The Sins of Scripture_, while browsing this past week. It looked pretty interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/38 "2005-05-08T03:23:00Z")
[John](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0691023883/qid=1115522439/sr=8-3/ref=pd_csp_3/103-4478497-3182246?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) [Polkinghorne](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/0300091281/ref=dp_proddesc_0/103-4478497-3182246?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155) is a pretty interesting guy. He studied quantum physics under Dirac, taught at Cambridge for a while, then left to become an Anglican priest. The first book I linked to is one of the best semi popular expositions of QM I’ve read, though it’s tough going. His other books are apologetics reconciling Religion and Science. He accepts evolution cheerfully and wholeheartedly. His views about the nature of God are not too unlike **Liberal’s** ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/39 "2005-05-08T18:35:46Z")
Is anyone here familiar with the Sunday morning program on the Hallmark Channel- “America at Worship”? It’s highlights of about five worship services- Evangelical, Reformed (pastored by Norman Vincent Peale’s successor), moderate Baptist (Texas pastor Gerald Mann), Black Protestant, and Catholic Mass, with moderate C’tian comments & interviews in between. ---
**Author:** ![gaucho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@gaucho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaucho)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660/40 "2005-05-08T20:53:07Z")
I think Cecil Williams from Glide in San Francisco is really cool: [http://www.glide.org/ourstories/revwilliams.asp](http://www.glide.org/ourstories/revwilliams.asp) I like a lot of Catholic writers for some reason; Graham Greene, Evelyn Waugh, Flannery O’Connor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-non-religious-well-known-religious-persons-you-like-respect/302660.md?page=3)