As an agnostic who constantly deals with my fundamentalist mother attempting to return me to my roots, I believe that the typical motivation is to counter-balance what she can’t see. For example, I’m supposed to suspend my currently held beliefs to consider her point of view because “I just might be wrong.” This, even though I’ve never said there is not a God. On the other hand, if I ask her to contemplate the exact same thing from her end (not to see things my way, but to prove the flip side of the coin, so to speak), she absolutely will NOT. There is no “might be.” Period. And this in a give and take sense doesn’t seem fair (for lack of a better word).
I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky. If I can see it, then I can be it
If I just believe it, there’s nothing to it. I believe I can soar.
But I could be wrong.
I believe there’s no God or godlike power. I have no problem saying I could well be wrong if by wrong that means perhaps there is some higher power who was present and or active at creation. To be completely honest I cannot say “I could be wrong” if by that you mean the deity of Genesis and Exodus is the deity, for that would be- to me- as ridiculous as saying “it could well be that we really are in a dream of Brahma as he sleeps on a lotus blossom growing from Vishnu’s bellybutton or that Prometheus really did get his liver torn out each day for loaning us his lighter”- I just honestly don’t believe it and can’t even envision it as a possibility.
I don’t mean anything at all condescending or patronizing when I say that it’s actually amazing to me that there are intelligent people on Earth, such as Friar Ted or Autolycus, who do believe in the deity of the Bible. It’s a subject I’d love to have a long conversation with them or someone like them about, but only in person (message board is too inviting of distraction and hijacking, if only by me). But I honestly can’t think of anything that would convince me short of personal revelation, and frankly I’d probably put that down to some form of psychotic hallucination.
Well, I guess you get to say “Don’t believe you! You don’t really mean what you’re saying! Liar, liar, pants on fire!” when the believer confounds your predictions. All in the name of objective rationality, donchaknow. :dubious:
There is no physical evidence for any God. The sole written evidence of the resurrection is in 4 Gospels, written decades after the event and which can’t even agree on things like how many people entered the tomb, how many ‘beings’ were found there and who saw the risen Jesus (and when).
Either Judaism or Christianity is grievously mistaken over the status of Jesus - but they never discuss it, nor try to persuade the other.
The Egyptians built wonderful Pyramids and worshipped Ra the Sun God. Now nobody believes in him.
In the light of this, I don’t believe in God. (If he does exist, he has no interest in showing himself or answering our prayers.)
All very interesting, but I thought the challenge was to say “I believe I am right, but I admit that I could be wrong”. I think we may have had one or two “Why I am right to be an atheist” threads before.
As a theist of my own devising who does not believe in a being in any way resembling or concerned with humanity, I work under the assumption that if I’m wrong, any truly merciful deity will have no problem with an honest mistake, and I’ll admit my mistake immediately upon death and worship them as they deserve.
If they do have a problem with it, then they’re no diety I’d care to worship anyway, or have any authority that I would wish to acknowledge.
The Christians try pretty hard to persuade anyone who doesn’t believe in Jesus as the resurrected son of God/savior or mankind. Why would the Jews care to persuade people otherwise? The status of Jesus is not a fundamental tenet of Judaism, and Jews in general are much less interested in proselytizing. The fact that Jews and Christians disagree about the status of Jesus doesn’t prove that there is no God, any more than Republicans and Democrats disagreeing about how to handle the economy proves that there is no such thing as money.
I believe there is a God, I find it incredibly unlikely that there isn’t one, but I’m perfectly aware that I could be totally wrong. There could indeed be no God.
I believe other people exist. I find it incredibly unlikely that they don’t, but I’m perfectly aware that I could be totally wrong. There could indeed be nobody other than me.
What do I win?
Isn’t it interesting how rare the atheists are who can admit this without prompting. And the more strident they are, the less they are able to consider it!
But in my experience, Christians (I pick on them because they’re what I know) are just as bad. I find people of faith who are walking the walk humbly to be rare indeed. Instead I see (and interact with) plenty of people who won’t hesitate to jump in and tell you you’re wrong to doubt or not believe and tout Jesus as the answer to all things. But live his teachings? Truly care about the poor etc? Come on now, that’s asking too much of these self-professed “christians”. The reply I’ve gotten when I put this to a pastor (or two) is that “we don’t know what is in people’s hearts. We don’t know what burdens they carry. Perhaps they’re doing the best they can.” Which is not the answer I got when I wanted off some of the church committees, lemmetellyou. I got a guilt trip instead.
All that is by the way, but adds to my resentment of the church and organized religion as a whole. Talk about taking a message and fucking it the hell up… Anyway, my point is that atheists have no monopoly on stridency and closed mindedness. They may here, but not in RL. Since this is but a small slice of RL, I say give it to them. God knows they can’t exactly stand up at work and declare non-belief. I’d lose my job (if I did so, but I’m agnostic, so I wouldn’t…), perhaps they would to. They have to blow off steam somewhere. Why not in the Pit?
I don’t think saying or believing or swearing to any statement makes anyone a true atheist or believer or even honest(I find the swearing in in court to be something of a joke). Words are merely words until actions reveal character, IMO. I’m happy to believe that I just don’t know. If this whole “child of God” thing works the way christians say it does, then God will surely understand any doubts anyone may have harbored. I really don’t see how or why God would be interested in any of us, period. If this being is omnipotent and omnipresent etc, we’re small change.
What about the life on other planets? Is that all under God as well? It should be. Somehow I doubt that groks on planet Zuka worship the way we do or have written records of their theology (I’m willing to be quite wrong about that as well). If we get to planet Zuka and trip over a cross, then that will be some real evidence of something.
Right now we have brain chemistry, social mores, cultural structure and history (and it must be said, habit and tradition). And that’s about it. I wish the religious here no ill, until and unless you attempt to convert me. Then I get vociferous and bitchy. So far, there’s been no need.
I believe, based on personal experiences, in the G-d of Israel. I admit the whole thing could just be a delusion caused by activity in my temporal lobe.
I believe anybody can speak to G-d if they try. So, I am VERY suspicious of anybody claiming to be the sole voice of the Lord.
,
I sometimes claim to speak for G-d. Mostly, he just wants us to be nice to each other.
I judge gentiles based on whether they are being nice. I don’t care what their religious beliefs are.
I just want people to be their brother’s keeper. Most people do a pretty good job already.
Does that mean I can’t use this space to say what I really think of Der Trihs? I find him to be an antitheist rather than an atheist. While the average atheist is content to believe that theists are deluded, they respect their right to choose. Der Trihs takes any opportunity to rail against religion and wants very much to force his beliefs on others.
Nonsense. Yes, I despise religion, and yes I’m an antitheist; I’ve even referred to myself as “atheistic, antitheistic, and theocidal” since I’d happily kill most versions of God if they were real and it was doable. But I have no intention of forcing my beliefs on others, and have specifically said so in the past.
You are projecting your fundamentally tyrannical nature as a believer onto me, I think.
Why is it that so many of the believers have to make other statements along with their declaration?
And i don’t just mean ANY other statements, but statements that almost discredit their accepting the possibility that God doesnt exist.
Such as Shodan’s “God might not exist, but then again, neither might people”
And of course the footnote*.
Because I’m not a bigot. Except using the special believer’s definition where you are a bigot just for disapproving of religion, and not other belief systems. Or are you going to call people who talk about the evils of Communism or Nazisim or racism or sexism “bigots” ?
Why? Oh, who knows? As well ask what reasons atheists have for either ignoring the statements of believers who make no such qualifications, or else insisting that not only are believers lying when they say so but indeed are all incapable of reliability on this subject - to an even greater extent than they must be considered unreliable on every other subject.
Yeah, but don’t worry. I’m sure the usual suspects can shift seamlessly to excoriating Judaism in general, and you in particular, for wilfully not seeking out converts, you exclusionary bastich :dubious:. It’s a game a sharper once played with a dupe…
