# To select SDMB Cheatriots' Defenders **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426 "2015-05-06T21:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/101 "2015-05-08T15:17:47Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > Doesnt care so much that he has posted three times and brought snacks… seems legit. Cookies are so much more entertaining than the old “You must care if you made a post” cliche. I mean, yes, its true that I am deeply concerned about the air in Tom Bradys balls, but thats just coincidental. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/102 "2015-05-08T15:27:54Z")
I like the Pats, Brady, and Belichick, for the most part (although I’m not a Pats _fan_, I have divided loyalties between the Giants and Panthers (I’m a transplant)). But I played for the Troy Patriots as a kid and I wore that uniform for a few years and that was enough to make me generally favorable towards them. Throw in the respect for what they’ve accomplished (a lot) and the fact that I’m more passionate about football than about ‘my’ team, and I basically enjoy them. I don’t think spygate or Brady’s-Balls-Gate are that big of a deal. It’s pretty minor as far as cheating goes, and all teams engage in that kind of stuff to one degree or another. But the whole attitude of nothing happened, or it’s not cheating if someone else does it, or of course some kid took Brady’s balls into the bathroom - that seems normal, is just crazy. They broke some rules, they’ll have minor repurcussions, and the world will move on.[/ ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/103 "2015-05-08T15:31:12Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Cookies are so much more entertaining than the old “You must care if you made a post” cliche. > > I mean, yes, its true that I am deeply concerned about the air in Tom Bradys balls, but thats just coincidental. OK, so you **DO** care. just more of in a Gisele Bundchen way than a Troy Vincent way. Fair enough. Glad we cleared that up. However, the point of discussion, I beleive, is the Troy Vincent way in terms of the Wells report and the hubris of certain Patriot fan posters here on the Dope. The Gisele Bundchen way would be in **Cafe Society** (Gisele Bundchen dishes on how much air is in Tom Brady’s bals in an interview on ET tonight.) or maybe **IMHO** (Do you prefer Tom Brady’s balls over- or underinflated?) or **MPSIMS** (I must admit I am obsessed with the air in Tom Brady’s balls.). If it’s not already posted, feel free to post one of your own. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/104 "2015-05-08T17:13:42Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > OK, so you **DO** care. just more of in a Gisele Bundchen way than a Troy Vincent way. Fair enough. Glad we cleared that up. > > However, the point of discussion, I beleive, is the Troy Vincent way in terms of the Wells report and the hubris of certain Patriot fan posters here on the Dope. > > The Gisele Bundchen way would be in **Cafe Society** (Gisele Bundchen dishes on how much air is in Tom Brady’s bals in an interview on ET tonight.) or maybe **IMHO** (Do you prefer Tom Brady’s balls over- or underinflated?) or **MPSIMS** (I must admit I am obsessed with the air in Tom Brady’s balls.). If it’s not already posted, feel free to post one of your own. I don’t know who Troy Vincent is, and don’t care enough to find out. But, does that mean I really do care? I post therefore I care? Its all so confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/105 "2015-05-08T22:47:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So what? Lance Armstrong probably won a Tour de France before he started doping, too. Maybe Ben Johnson would still have won Olympic gold without steroids. I doubt anyone thinks the difference between Brady and Jay Cutler is just ball pressure, but the whole point of a bright-line rule is to avoid the sort of subjective “what if?” you want to get into. But the fact that the balls in the Super Bowl were, without a doubt, inflated to regulation standards does preclude playing the “what if?” game. What if Brady played with legitimate footballs inflated to regulation standards? He did beat the greatest defense of his generation in the Super Bowl, engineering the largest 4th-quarter comeback in Super Bowl history. There’s no “what if?” involved. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/106 "2015-05-08T23:13:19Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > My head hurts. > > ETA: seriously, why the fuck you gotta bring up all that shit from the 18th century? Let that shit rest, man. Then you should have said that to **Stringbean** when he brought up the deign thing. I said something because no one else did. And any “headache” you get reading my posts is your own fault. As soon as you see it’s something you don’t care about, skip it. It’s the Pit. I’m not posting based on what other people want to see. And, **Stringbean** , you seem to have a problem separating the narrator from the hypothetical person you are describing. You were being condescending, yes. But you were complaining about people who didn’t give genuine apologies. And a condescending apology is not genuine. I do not believe you would have been happy with a pity apology. And that’s the last I’ll say, lest **kayaker** ’s lack of self-control give him another metaphorical headache. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/107 "2015-05-09T00:36:29Z")
I know very little about football, and I regard that as a minor personal failing, just as my inability to remember who acted or directed particular movies is a minor personal failing. When I told my students about this scandal this morning, I kept using wrong words–“They only used the deflated balls when it was, uh, their turn?” and students laughed at me and corrected me (“possession,” right?) My hobbies are absofuckinglutely not cooler than being a football fan. And the dude cheated. I know this not because I’ve analyzed the reports, but **because the heads of the game say so**. It ain’t up to Elvis or anyone else to determine what comprised cheating. Mostly I’m familiar with Elvis from the 2008 Democratic primary, where his support for Clinton was so scathingly, dishonestly obnoxious that it made it hard for me to realize that not all Clinton supporters were awful. I see he hasn’t changed. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/108 "2015-05-09T10:35:11Z")
Isn’t it common courtesy to give people a heads up when you pit them? This is the first time I’ve opened the pit in over a month and just happened to see my name at the top of the OP. Drop me a line next time. I’ll try to clarify my position, so at least you can see where I’m coming from: I view all these “cheating” scandals as irrelevant minutia, and find the sanctimonious butthurt outrage to be laughably embarrassing. As in, I find myself embarrassed to be a football fan. I also find the outrage remarkably hypocritical, since people seem to only ever be outraged at the Patriots. In the tier of “totally irrelevant, not even worth a second thought” I would put: - Opening the doors in the old Giants Stadium during opponent field goal attempts. (heh) - Piping in extra crowd noise (Falcons this year, possibly Seahawks in previous years?) - GMs texting coaches on the sidelines during games (Browns) - Filming defensive signals during games (Patriots) - Deflating the balls by a little bit (Patriots) - this would be the least serious of all, IMO In the tier of “actually potentially damaging to the league” I would classify: - Violating the salary cap (Broncos, 49ers) - Tampering (49ers, Jets, Lions, Patriots) - Steroids (Seahawks secondary, plus every team in the league) Somewhere in between I’d put bountygate. (Saints) I don’t see anything inherently wrong with having a pool, but I do see it as distasteful. Note that the Broncos share something in common with the Patriots in that both of their “if you ain’t cheatin’ you ain’t tryin’” efforts came in the same era as they were winning Superbowls. That’s really just some background. I view all the Patriot hate (Cheatriots!!!) as making a mountain out of a molehill, and the over-the-top outrage gives me uncontrollable douche chills. I will, of course, concede the larger point of the OP: This molehill was indeed confirmed to be an actual molehill, and not completely unfounded. To SenorBeef specifically, in trying to figure out why your outrage at the Patriots was so vastly higher than what was warranted, the only guess I could come up with was that you have a grudge against Belichick. If you don’t, and your outrage level really truly was just a rational response to the situations, then I have to say I think you’re batshit crazy. Are the Browns also scumbags? The GM is suspended for 4 games for cheating. > [@CinnamonBabka](#): > > More on topic, this is all on point with the Pats fan at work. The Bengals, Packers, Giants, and Cowboys fans all talk shit about whatever rhetoric is in the news, but whenever it’s Boston’s turn to have a scandal he’ll get defensive to the point where he gets mad at people for even bringing the subject up. For the record, I’m a Giants fan. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/109 "2015-05-09T10:41:36Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Ultimately sports are silly. We’re watching a bunch of men throw balls around and take our attention and money. I mean, they’re fine for entertainment, I love me some NFL myself, but in the grand scheme of things, they’re not something that matters. Self-righteous rant? “…they’re fine for entertainment,…” Well, for what other utility do you envision sports? ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/110 "2015-05-09T11:37:12Z")
Also, if I hear another person espouse the rote mantra “grown men tossing a ball around,” I’m gonna…well…just ignore that idiot. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/111 "2015-05-09T12:13:02Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > To SenorBeef specifically, in trying to figure out why your outrage at the Patriots was so vastly higher than what was warranted, the only guess I could come up with was that you have a grudge against Belichick. If you don’t, and your outrage level really truly was just a rational response to the situations, then I have to say I think you’re batshit crazy. I didn’t really care about spygate. I didn’t participate in those threads very much and there was almost no outrage coming from me. I assume you’re misremembering or mistaking me for someone else. I was mostly annoyed with the repeated argument of “it’s not cheating because there’s no advantage gained, there’s nothing you can film from the press box [or wherever the illegal filming happened] that you can’t film legally from elsewhere” - to which my response was, quite reasonably, if they felt there was no advantage to be gained, but there was a risk of getting caught (as they had been previously warned), then why do it? They must think they were getting some sort of advantage. That’s the biggest “outrage” you can find from me on the spygate issue. > [@](#): > > Are the Browns also scumbags? The GM is suspended for 4 games for cheating. What? He was suspended for personal conduct, but I don’t think anyone thinks he was trying to cheat. I’m not finding the exact content of the texts online (I don’t know if it was ever released) but it was basically catty bitching at Kyle Shanahan because those two had a feud going. Not some sort of super secret information. I’m not actually sure why that rule exists, actually. Is the GM prevented from having any input on gameday in general? > [@Mince](#): > > Self-righteous rant? > > “…they’re fine for entertainment,…” > > Well, for what other utility do you envision sports? > [@Mince](#): > > Also, if I hear another person espouse the rote mantra “grown men tossing a ball around,” I’m gonna…well…just ignore that idiot. Ignoring me would be better than having to respond and show your reading comprehension. I already explained what I meant. It’s a sad demonstration of motivated thinking, bias, and tribalism that people get so delusional over something that’s ultimately inconsequential to their worldview. It leaves little hope that anyone can change their mind to accept reality on matters of consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/112 "2015-05-09T12:34:53Z")
Sports are fine, just fine for entertainment. For curing encephalopathy, world hunger, economic disparity, racism, Addison’s, Chron’s, it sucks. Well, Mr. Mince, it’s a sure good thing we don’t rely on sports to cure such things. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/113 "2015-05-11T02:41:54Z")
Back from RL now. Just for reference, y’all, [this site is pretty comprehensive](http://yourteamcheats.com/). Take a look and let us all know what you conclude. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/114 "2015-05-11T02:45:14Z")
I do like [Wells’ story](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/report-confirms-nfl-had-chance-to-avoid-deflategate/) about how this episode came to be: > [@](#): > > The Wells report explains that Colts G.M. Ryan Grigson sent an email to the league office raising concerns about air pressure in Patriots football. Attached to the Grigson email was a message from Colts Equipment Manager Sean Sullivan, who said “it is well known around the league that after the Patriots gameballs [sic] are checked by the officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys [sic] for the patriots [sic] will let out some air with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better, it would be great if someone would be able to check the air in the game balls as the game goes on so that they don’t get an illegal advantage.” (Emphasis added.) “Everyone knows …” :rolleyes: Yes, the NFL has its share of 13 year olds. Just like this board does. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/115 "2015-05-11T06:30:06Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes, the NFL has its share of 13 year olds. Just like this board does. Playing smugly superior only works as a rhetorical tactic if someone on the planet will buy it. With you being a very unselfaware twat, I guess someone has to tell you that is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/116 "2015-05-11T08:50:01Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > Nothing you said actually addresses the charge leveled against you. If you thought it was so unimportant, why did you feel the need to ridicule Hector for it? You don’t get to say it’s unimportant because you lost. You guys decided to Pit **Hentor** in the Games Room. He’s at least nice enough to put the insults in the right forum. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/117 "2015-05-11T11:22:25Z")
Yep, \*lots \*of 13 year olds here. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/118 "2015-05-11T11:38:01Z")
It’s always annoying when people are too oblivious to understand how badly they’re coming off. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/119 "2015-05-11T12:25:01Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s always annoying when people are too oblivious to understand how badly they’re coming off. For me, that makes it a hell of a lot more fun. You really can’t buy comedy like this. Did you check out the linked compendium of cheating he pointed to? Look at the section on deflategate - it’s so apparent that the whole endeavor is the product of a seething Patriots homer trying desperately to salvage his pathetic self-worth that it is hilarious! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426/120 "2015-05-11T12:44:31Z")
Here’s a pat on the head, kid. Now go do your homework. :rolleyes: > [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s always annoying when people are too oblivious to understand how badly they’re coming off. It certainly is. 😉 Except when it’s entertaining. For which, thanks, btw. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-select-sdmb-cheatriots-defenders/719426.md?page=7)