# To the lady who called me a homophobic fucktard the other day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080 "2005-07-25T17:11:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ludy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Ludy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/41 "2005-07-25T20:04:07Z")
I would like to know what the 20 year old was doing during all of this. Personally I would be offended if my partner declared himself my guardian. FYI I worked for a liquor store in Alberta and it was legal for an underage person to be in the store accompanied by a legal guardian or a spouse. But that was a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/42 "2005-07-25T20:04:57Z")
Was she being sarcastic when she said “She’s my wife!” That’s the way I understood it when I read the OP. And **LA** is right about spouse not being a legal guardian (not that anyone doubted him, from what I see here.) My girlfriend has to put up with a lot of guys in their early '20s married to women under 21 in the place she works. When the kitchen closes, the younguns have got to leave the premises. That is the owner’s interpretation of the applicable Virginia law. And has anyone checked the Pit for a thread titled something like “Fuck you, homophobic Fucktard who wouldn’t give me a drink!” ? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/43 "2005-07-25T20:06:02Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > The OP said that this was a “rule” of the bar, not a law. I also mentioned later that it is a Virginia ABC regulation. There are bars that will allow 18 year olds in, but they have to pay all kinds of extra fees and get audited much more carefully. The owner of the establishment at which I work decided not to bother with all that. You’re probably right that I could’ve come up with a better way of asking about the nature of their relationship and, should this happen again, I will probably do it in the way you’re suggesting. I still think she overreacted, though. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/44 "2005-07-25T20:06:05Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > The OP said that this was a “rule” of the bar, not a law. No, he didn’t: > [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I tried to explain to her that that wasn’t good enough. That she wasn’t her guardian, she was her partner. Legally, that wasn’t going to pacify any police officers or ABC officials who find out that we let an under 21 into the bar when they try to shut us down. And, sorry, but someone who marries a person young enough to be their child doesn’t have any right to be upset when people mistake the other person for their child. I have nothing against people who marry someone much older/younger than themselves (my parents could almost qualify), but you’ve simply got to expect that sort of thing if you’re in thatsort of relationship. Anyway, from **Lord Ashtar** ’s description of her reaction, it sounds to me like asking if she was her daughter was the smallest of a great number of bugs up this woman’s ass. Even if **Ashtar** could have worded the question more sensitivly, that’s no excuse for going off on him like she did. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/45 "2005-07-25T20:08:04Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > It disrespects their relationship. So what? If it gets me in to play 9ball, what do I care about whether or not some random stranger respects my relationship? > [@](#): > > The OP said that this was a “rule” of the bar, not a law. I’m not sure about the laws of Virginia, but in Nevada it is legal for a person over 18 but under 21 to be in a gaming area _if_ they are going from, say, the elevators to a non-gaming area (the buffet, for example) and _if_ they are accompanied by a parent or guardian. Spouse doesn’t enter into it. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/46 "2005-07-25T20:20:27Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > You knew damn well what she was indicating by pointing to her wedding ring. You knew she wasn’t indicating that her spouse was her daughter. You knew she was indicating her spouse was her spouse. Asking if her spouse was her daughter was a shitty thing to do. I have to say that I would not have known what she meant. It was unclear to me whether or not Lord Ashtar meant the 44-year-old pointed to her own wedding ring or the other person’s wedding ring, but in either case I would not have been sure what she was trying to say. When I worked in bars, we often had underage people come in - who were married to of-age customers - and mistakenly believe that because they were married, they were allowed to enter with their spouse. But no, the law doesn’t work that way. Anyway, I would have been confused in the OP’s situation. It would not have been my first thought that one was trying to say she was married to the other, especially while calling herself the other’s legal guardian. Is this how married people generally refer to themselves in other states? “Hi, I’m Sally and this is my legal guardian, Mark/Jane. We’re married.” That term would have completely thrown me off. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/47 "2005-07-25T20:26:35Z")
She could have taken away any possibility for confusion and simply stated that they were married, rather than try and be either cute or bitchy about it and only point at her ring. ---
**Author:** ![Hung\_Mung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hung\_Mung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hung_Mung)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/48 "2005-07-25T20:26:40Z")
Bear in mind that this _is_ Virginia. I don’t think it’s a stretch to ask, when one indicates the wedding band, if their company is their daughter (or sister, cousin, etc.) The two relationships are not always mutually exclusive down south of the ol’ Mason-Dixon. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/49 "2005-07-25T20:28:15Z")
In some states at least, is it not the case that anyone who gets married becomes an emancipated minor? So if VA recognized civil unions, you would have had to let them in. Then you get to deal with a lesbian with a chip on her shoulder and a trophy wife, who has been drinking. Hilarity ensues. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/50 "2005-07-25T20:42:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, he didn’t: Yes, he did: > [@LordAshtar](#): > > We have a rule that you have to be 21 to come in unless you’re accompanied by a parent or legal guardian. He later said that it was also an ABC regulation, which I issed upon first reading the OP. > [@Miller](#): > > Even if **Ashtar** could have worded the question more sensitivly, that’s no excuse for going off on him like she did. Did I say that it was? I said I understood why she would be pissed off over the manner he asked the question. I didn’t say she had the right to go off on him. > [@Maureen](#): > > So what? If it gets me in to play 9ball, what do I care about whether or not some random stranger respects my relationship? Spoken like someone who’s never had her marriage disrespected, from the sound of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/51 "2005-07-25T20:45:55Z")
In general parents can provide alcohol to their minor children without breaking the law. This is mostly because religious rites often require imbibing of wine(communion) or other alcoholic beverages. You can’t really specify the conditions under which the alcohol can be given to minors as part of a religious ceremony without getting onto very thin ice with regards to freedom of religion. In general, in some states, a specific exception is granted in the alcohol statutes for the state to exempt parents giving their own children alcoholic beverages. I don’t think this defense would stand if you got your kid shitfaced just to giggle as they stagger around the yard for your own amusement, but hopefully that doesn’t come up too often. So that part of the alcohol laws in play is not all that wierd. Parents can not generally provide alcohol to children other than their own without breaking the law. What is kind of weird to me about the situation in the OP is that the older lady seemed to think the spousal relationship was the legal equivalant of the parent-child or parent-guardian relationship. I haven’t seen these kinds of exceptions to the “providing alcohol to minors” statutes, although I guess it could be in the marriage statutes. Seems weird to claim guardianship of a spouse though. That, to me, would disrespect the relationship which is about equals coming together. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/52 "2005-07-25T21:04:51Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Yes, he did: > > He later said that it was also an ABC regulation, which I missed upon first reading the OP. Okay, he said it was a rule _and_ a law. Therefore, your correction of my post is more incorrect than my correction of your post. That means I win! > [@](#): > > Did I say that it was? I said I understood why she would be pissed off over the manner he asked the question. I didn’t say she had the right to go off on him. I understand that, but disagree. The question wasn’t disrespectful. He asked her if she was the other woman’s legal guardian. She pointed to her ring. That doesn’t answer the original question, so he asked it again in more specific terms. Then she freaks out on him. I’d say she was just being a gigantic bitch for no reason. Anyway, if she were actually insulted by that question, I’d assume she’d yell at him because of that question. Instead, she starts calling him homophobic. Regardless of wether she was _right_ to be insulted by that question, I don’t think it is at all clear from **Lord Ashtar** ’s description that she _was_ insulted by that question. > [@](#): > > Spoken like someone who’s never had her marriage disrespected, from the sound of it. Hey, **Maureen**! Your marriage SUCKS! There, now she can have an opinion on the subject. 😃 > [@Shodan](#): > > In some states at least, is it not the case that anyone who gets married becomes an emancipated minor? So if VA recognized civil unions, you would have had to let them in. Yeah, but twenty year olds aren’t minors to begin with, are they? I thought you lost your minor status when you turned eighteen, regardless of your martial status. The drinking laws in the US don’t apply to minors _per se_, but to anyone under the age of 21, most of whom just happen to be minors. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/53 "2005-07-25T21:16:43Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > You heard someone actually say “fucktard”? > [@NurseCarmen](#): > > The thin skinned lesbian is a DOPER! Verily, by their swearing you shall know them. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/54 "2005-07-25T21:23:23Z")
Why, thank you, **Miller**. 😃 > [@Otto](#): > > Spoken like someone who’s never had her marriage disrespected, from the sound of it. Of course I have. That’s a rather silly assumption. It just doesn’t matter. The only time it matters if someone disrespects my marriage is if it’s my spouse doing the disrespecting. Or a state entity telling me I can’t have a marriage. Other than that, I fail to see why the opinion of a private citizen should ever have any impact on the state of my marriage. **Lord Ashtar** is not my favorite person (nor I his), but I honestly don’t think he disrespected this woman’s marriage, and I don’t think he’s a homophobe. Maybe he was a little rude, but then, so was the bitch that accosted him. ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/55 "2005-07-25T21:30:17Z")
Won’t _someone_ think of the children? I know, this has no bearing here. But for some reason, it made me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/56 "2005-07-25T21:44:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That means I win! Made my day! (Miller knows what I mean, and it’s not about dissing Otto) ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/57 "2005-07-25T22:29:21Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > It disrespects their relationship. > > First, I think you’re assuming that this woman was aware of what does and doesn’t constitute “legal guardian” in regards to entering a bar. Second, when would a parent _ever_ point to a wedding ring to indicate a parental relationship? Oh pleeeze! If anyone was disrepecting the realtionship it was her. No, people don’t generally point to a wedding ring to indicate parental realtionship…then again they don’t often point to one to indicate marital realtionships. They generally say “We’re married”. And what I would say is even more unusual is refering to your spouse as someone your are “guardian” of. If my SO refered to himself as my guardian rather than my partner, I’d be pretty insulted. Probably more so if there _were_ a big age difference. Since in that case I would expect many people would mistake our relationship. She made it sound like a parental relationship. He asked the first question that came to mind to clarify it (and the one that would get them in). He certainly didn’t disrespect their realtionship by trying to figure out what it was. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/58 "2005-07-25T22:35:06Z")
Other people say ‘Fucktard’ besides dopers, it’s a common term. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/59 "2005-07-25T22:51:43Z")
After she shows the ring he would get in trouble if he asked her, “Are you saying you’re married and that is why I should let her in?” The woman would have shouted at him “What? You don’t think two women can be married?? Homophobe!!” He was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t (short of ignoring the rules/laws and letting the 20 year old in). ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080/60 "2005-07-25T22:55:34Z")
Aside: why does **Otto** always seem to find something to get his ass on his shoulders about whenever there’s a gay thread around? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-lady-who-called-me-a-homophobic-fucktard-the-other-day/314080.md?page=4)