# To the liberals who utterly dominate the season-ticket holding ranks for the Wash Nat Opera **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 30, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667 "2013-10-30T18:27:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/221 "2013-11-03T08:41:23Z")
I’d rather have rap music beamed directly into my cortex, 24/7 for a week than listen to one hour of Wagner. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/222 "2013-11-03T14:02:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’d rather have rap music beamed directly into my cortex, 24/7 for a week than listen to one hour of Wagner. Ooh, tough decision… … wait, I can vote _Neither,_ can’t I? [skips off happily, humming Alt-Folk ditties…] ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/223 "2013-11-03T14:32:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’d rather have rap music beamed directly into my cortex, 24/7 for a week than listen to one hour of Wagner. Maybe, but it just wouldn’t have been the same if Elmer Fudd had sung _So long, bitch you did me so wrong/I don’t wanna go on/Living in this world without you_ to Bugs Bunny. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/224 "2013-11-03T17:33:39Z")
**Bricker** , I’m going to have to join the group saying you need to learn to let it go. I play in a rock band, and attend quite a few shows to boot. Loudmouths you don’t agree with are part of the territory in bars. If you’re going to argue with them successfully, you have to learn that you aren’t going to engage in a logical argument while in line for drinks. If you’re gonna win, you’re gonna have to race to the bottom faster, and get away. I usually just say something on the level of “Oh sure, I should listen to some fucking genius in line at a bar!”, get my drink, and avoid that asshole for the rest of the night. It’s out of my system, and I move on. I realize the level of discourse at the opera is probably slightly more civilized, so just take a move from [Heather Mooney](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lx3zWKx1d7g#t=333), and spontaneously develop an overbite while drinking. I always feel better when I do that around loudmouths I don’t agree with, at least. The effect is even more spectacular when done into a beard with a drink of beer. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/225 "2013-11-03T18:54:42Z")
You know what they ultimately want, right? _Socialist_ opera! (Or maybe they themselves don’t know, and are just useful fools like all limousine liberals). But the end will be all the same: \*The East is Red, \* with [Lisa Simeone](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1021676) doing to American high culture what Trofim Lysenko did for Soviet agriculture ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/226 "2013-11-03T20:01:12Z")
To the earlier point about many of the well-to-do patrons of the opera going there simply to be seen by the other well-to-do’s, I have a couple of supporting anecdotes. Last winter, we went to a performance of _La Cenerentola_ at the Palm Beach Opera. That’s a big-money, show-offy community, and it was pretty blatant to see the social action in the lobby and at the bar before the show and at the intermission. But fully a third of the seats were empty for Act II. That many of them had already what they came to do, and that didn’t include actually listening and watching the opera. Oh well, all the opera company really needs from then is their money, and there are still enough actual fans in the theater to make it worthwhile for all the rest concerned. Some years earlier, we were able to get tickets in the orchestra at the Met to hear Leontyne Price, the definitive Aida, in her farewell tour. She had a little quaver in her high notes, and it was time, sure, but she was still damn gorgeous to hear. At the first intermission, the rich-looking guy next to us turned to his wife and commented “That black woman seems pretty good, doesn’t she?” That’s _Leontyne Motherlovin’ Price_, you fool! Why didn’t you just stay at the bar with the rest of the Beautiful Rich People and give your tickets to a couple of Juilliard students - you’d \*all \*have had a more fulfilling evening. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/227 "2013-11-03T20:08:27Z")
I’d be mortified if I was Bricker’s wife. Now, what’s all this about the opera? HEY-O! POW! BANG! ZOOM! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/228 "2013-11-03T20:12:22Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > You know what they ultimately want, right? _Socialist_ opera! Yup, like that opera that is about a half-breed trying to marry into the white aristocracy, with the plot turning on a tragedy illustrating the need for gun control. What was that opera’s name? > [@Bricker](#): > > (Verdi’s _La forza del destino_, if anyone cares.) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/229 "2013-11-03T20:21:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My comments don’t come from a distaste for opera – they come from a distaste of making other people pay for my entertainment. That is a reasonable position. How do you feel about sports stadiums? Often they are funded by municipalities. How do you feel about any number of arts and sports grants from the government? The thing is, government does subsidize entertainment in numerous ways, so why shouldn’t the opera lovers get a bit of their tax dollar back toward their preferred form of entertainment just as other folks are getting a bit of their entertainment (whatever it may be) paid for by the opera lovers’ tax dollars.? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/230 "2013-11-03T20:27:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Look, it wasn’t just one guy. Yes, one guy was speechifying, but the mood of the crowd was agreement. You stumbled upon a nest of them! Best use a flamethrower. “When man entered the liberal age, he opened the door to a new world. What we may eventually find in that new world, no one can predict.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/231 "2013-11-03T20:30:47Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > That is a reasonable position. > > How do you feel about sports stadiums? Often they are funded by municipalities. > > How do you feel about any number of arts and sports grants from the government? > The thing is, government does subsidize entertainment in numerous ways, so why shouldn’t the opera lovers get a bit of their tax dollar back toward their preferred form of entertainment just as other folks are getting a bit of their entertainment (whatever it may be) paid for by the opera lovers’ tax dollars.? I think it’s safe to say that **Bricker** would be against all those things. It’s not too difficult to be consistent on this issue. I was at a dinner party last night with a bunch of older, very conservative folks. The conversation kept drifting towards politics (and particularly the various wars we’ve had recently). It wasn’t the time or place to get into a raging debate, so I just raised my glass and said: “Let’s just hope all our men and women come home safely, and that we don’t get ourselves into another war anytime soon”. Everyone seemed good with that, and the evening continued on without incident. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/232 "2013-11-03T20:43:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Interesting. With those numbers you could equally say it’s a tiny amount of money and we should keep spending it, or that it’s a tiny amount of money and they can do without it. Or it is a tiny amount of money that creates direct jobs (e.g. producing the opera) and indirect jobs (e.g. tourism), which generate more wealth than the expenditure. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/233 "2013-11-03T20:47:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What path do I take to show I like opera, and am willing to pay not only the current price, but a hike as well, so that the show could be seen without government funding necessary? Join the opera company’s board of directors and show them the figures. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/234 "2013-11-03T21:13:34Z")
> [@Mrs.Cake](#): > > I think even most of the true devotees are not going to pony up 4X the current ticket price unless the more attractive members of the chorus start offering sexual favors in the intermissions. If they are smeared in chocolate, then I’m in. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/235 "2013-11-03T21:21:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If sane minds ruled the process of giving grants to art, in the model of the patronage of olden days, I might see the value. > > But here’s the rub: on what principled, neutral basis can you say that Puccini and Verdi are artists that deserve money but Andres Serrano or Karen Finely are not? Peer reviewed grant applications with such pre-defined requirements and limitations as the government sets out prior to submissions, but then that was what the whole Finley thing was about, for the nature of a lot of art is to push boundaries, and in this instance, the Republican boundary in the form of a Bush appointee pushed back. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/236 "2013-11-03T21:26:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The point is that one opera company going bust may say nothing except that the opera company was badly run. It may only say that New York cannot support _two_ opera companies; your own quote mentions New York’s older, more popular and better funded Metropolitan Opera - which is _not_ bankrupt. And if the government subsidy is only a few points of the company’s budget, then it is teetering anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/237 "2013-11-03T21:33:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’d be mortified if I was Bricker’s wife. I think Bricker might be mortified and more than a little disoriented if he woke up to you one morning. For your sake, I hope he didn’t have sex with you the previous night. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/238 "2013-11-03T22:04:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If sane minds ruled the process of giving grants to art, in the model of the patronage of olden days, I might see the value. > > But here’s the rub: on what principled, neutral basis can you say that Puccini and Verdi are artists that deserve money but Andres Serrano or Karen Finely are not? > [@Muffin](#): > > Peer reviewed grant applications with such pre-defined requirements and limitations as the government sets out prior to submissions, but then that was what the whole Finley thing was about, for the nature of a lot of art is to push boundaries, and in this instance, the Republican boundary in the form of a Bush appointee pushed back. You could also ban direct grants to artists, but keep support for cultural institutions that showcase them. The latter has a quasi-market check, since cultural institutions are shaped by attendance and changes in charitable donations. If you think a single exhibition of Serrano automatically outweighs everything else a gallery does over a five year period, then methinks you need to get a grip. Although I could see making demands that the gallery provide voice for those who dislike certain controversial works. Generally though, institutions usually shouldn’t be judged solely by their greatest missteps assuming they don’t involve death, injury, lost national treasure or crime. New Coke and Newton don’t really capture the essence of the Coca Cola company or Apple. Personally though, I don’t have a problem with the direct grant program, though I think it could use an audit. That said, I don’t even know if it exists anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/239 "2013-11-03T22:29:47Z")
I have yet to see any evidence that opera watchers are more likely to be liberals than conservatives. Beyond that, is there anything inherently wrong with the government trying to support high culture since it seems to stand the test of time so well. People have been watching Shakespeare and listening to Beethoven for several centuries and I see no reason to believe this won’t be the case several centuries from now whereas I can say with almost mathematical certainty the same will not be true for either James Patterson or Brittany Spears. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/240 "2013-11-04T00:33:41Z")
You leave Beethoven alone! (Sob!) He tried so hard, he gave and gave and gave, and you bastards just want to tear him (snivel, sob) DOWN! Just to show you how hard he tried! (sob) After he became deaf, he still tried to conduct his music, as was expected. (blubber, sob) He was well into the last half of his famous Ninth Symphony, when the binding on the musical score disintegrated, leaving poor Beethoven (simper, sob) desperately lashing it to the podium with string (wimper)! On top of that, the bass section of the chorus had been passing around a _guzzleflagon_ of _schnaps_, and were totally (sob, weep) shitfaced. So there he was - bottom of the Ninth, score tied, bass loaded. (simper) You bastards! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667.md?page=13)