# To the liberals who utterly dominate the season-ticket holding ranks for the Wash Nat Opera **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 30, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667 "2013-10-30T18:27:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/81 "2013-10-31T00:01:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ve used this story before, but since it seems necessary again. > > When I was young, we had the board game “Monopoly,” as did many of my friends. My friends almost universally played with a “house rule,” in which the money collected from fines, and sometimes even from house and property sales from the bank, went into the center of the board, and was claimed by landing on “free parking.” > > That’s not how we played when my house was the locale. Our “house rule” was the actual Monopoly rulebook, which clearly provided that Free Parking was just a resting spot, and garnered the player no money or other benefits. I would argue, when playing at someone else’s house, that we should follow the actual rules of the game. Often I would be outvoted, and the game would use the money-in-the-middle/Free-parking rule. > > Taking the money, if I then landed on Free Parking, is not hypocrisy. > > Do you understand why, **sylmar**? Because you (presumably, given that anybody continued to play with you) did not continue advocating for abolition of the house rule even as you took and spent the money. What do I win? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/82 "2013-10-31T00:07:04Z")
I’m an opera hater (I’ve gone to two, and barring unforeseen circumstances won’t ever go to a third), but I support public funding. Way I figure it, we shouldn’t fund opera so Bricker can go to it. We should fund opera so that poor folk can go to it. Even though it’s not my bag, I subscribe to the two loaves philosophy: “If you have but two loaves,” goes the proverb, “Sell one and buy hyacinths, for the hyacinths will feed the soul.” Art that supports itself commercially makes a lot of compromises in order to do so, and I think it’s a good thing for there to be publicly-accessible art that is supported through grants. I have no problem with those grants being governmental grants. By making art available through these means, it’s not just the very wealthy who can access it, but poor folk can access it as well. I say that without knowing the opera’s pricing structure. If tickets to the opera are always priced out of the range of poor folk, I have a lot less interest in funding it. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/83 "2013-10-31T00:09:31Z")
I don’t often get into the pit, but as I happen to be the Finance director at a regional opera company AND I worked accounting at a Broadway theater, I can actually put some numbers on the table. Those $50-$100 tickets to see an opera cover maybe one quarter of the cost of mounting a production. We charge what the market will bear and really can’t increase it to begin covering more of the costs or we start losing patrons. I think even most of the true devotees are not going to pony up 4X the current ticket price unless the more attractive members of the chorus start offering sexual favors in the intermissions. Another quarter of the cost is covered by earnings from our endowment. My particular company is notable for having the largest endowment of all US opera companies in relation to its annual expenses by about a factor of three. Most don’t cover a fraction of the expenses that ours does. That means about half the cost of mounting an opera has to come from contributions and grants, and in many, many cases the government grants are only a tiny part. About four percent of our contributions come from Federal and State sources. More come from city hotel/motel taxes, but since that is based on the tourist dollars and overall economic impact arts & culture bring to the region, that can almost be considered earned income. As Terry Pratchett said in “Masquerade”, money goes in, opera comes out. There is a reason arts & cultural institutions have always been funded by patrons, philanthropists and governments. They simply cannot do the mission on fees alone. As to why Broadway can be successful, that is the economics of mounting a show. An modest opera might cost $750,000 to mount, a significant chunk of that in capital or non-recurring costs - sets, costumes, wigs, plus rehearsals, auditions, developing marketing plans and materials, etc. That opera is maybe only going to run 10-12 performances. You might haul that set out and reuse it with significant rebuilds in later years, you might rent our the package and make some money back, but mostly that cost is going against that show. A Broadway show might cost $5,000,000 to mount, but it is planning/hoping to run 300 performances a year for a couple years, then go on the road, so it has a much better chance of making its money back with a profit. Also, Broadway shows have investors and backers who are planning to make money out of this. Opera seeks contributors who think the art is worth preserving beyond a pop-culture audience. Broadway can be for-profit, although the theaters that the shows play in are usually not-for-profit entities since they often art centers in their cities and do a lot of work that is not profitable. So, just my two cents about why the arts need patrons to survive. Yes, I’m way lefty (although I have been told that as an accountant I’m not really “supposed” to be. We have a pretty even mix of liberal-centrist-conservative Board members, a few of them very hard right, but every one of them agrees Opera needs a variety of funding, including government, to survive, just like almost every other arts, cultural, or educational entity does. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/84 "2013-10-31T00:19:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I suppose it’s possible I never noticed it in such an irritatingly-displayed way before, then. And I suppose it’s possible I never noticed the conservatives doing it because it didn’t trigger any outrage. When people take one look at me and assume (correctly) that I am a liberal just like they are, it doesn’t really irritate me. I might feel uncomfortable out of a sense of not knowing the basis of their assumption i(is it my race? my gender? my Subaru?) But I usually don’t feel irritated. But I typically will feel irritated if someone makes the wrong assumption about me. I have never been pegged as conservative, but people have wrongly assumed that I’m Christian. Or that I’m because I’m into X, then I must be into Y. But hey, that’s what it means to be in the minority sometimes–putting up with generalizations that don’t apply to you. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/85 "2013-10-31T00:19:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > (1) Yes, I am a conservative. > > (2) Yes, I love opera and have season tickets. > > (3) No, I am not a traitor to point (2) by virtue of being (1). Nor am I hostile to opera by believing that opera should pay its own way instead of subsisting on government largess. > > Nor am I hypocritical in seeing opera that benefits from government grants. > > Frankly, I don’t seek out political discourse at the opera. … Suuuuuuure you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/86 "2013-10-31T00:23:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I say that without knowing the opera’s pricing structure. If tickets to the opera are always priced out of the range of poor folk, I have a lot less interest in funding it. They are - $50 is the bottom line ticket price even here in Orlando - but I gather they give quite a few tickets to schools and things. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/87 "2013-10-31T00:41:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have answers. > > The rules specifically forbid any player from giving money to any other player, except as outlined by the rules. So “interest” would be forbidden, as would “loans.” > > Of course, alliances being legal, I suppose you could agree to buy a property for $500 and then sell it back for $600 in a few turns, thus gaining $100 that was part of some interest deal. But these would be extra-legal agreements, unenforceable if the recipient of the loan decided to default. Thanks. And players are only allowed to do trades on their own turns, correct? We haven’t come to a player choosing to break a contract yet. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/88 "2013-10-31T00:46:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. But you seem to have wandered away from the meaning of the word “hypocrite.” > > It doesn’t mean, “Meanie who does stuff I don’t like.” Wondered away? Tried to sarcastically highlight that without the government help, there would be no opera for you to attend and complain about the funding for. But since you missed that boat, lets take a sabbatical on the sarcasm and go with a more elementary example. Let’s say you find prostitution and it’s exploitation of the socially vulnerable morally offensive. And yet you still patronize the local whore house, all the while bleating that you still find it morally objectionable but you’re there because you enjoy sex. Easy solution to not seeming like a hypocrite? If you find something morally objectionable, don’t fucking (figuratively) partake and complain about it afterwards (Or during) Brick. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/89 "2013-10-31T00:50:11Z")
He is not being forced to support prostitution notwithstanding his objection to the profession. He is forced to financially support the WNO. See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/90 "2013-10-31T00:50:24Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Because you (presumably, given that anybody continued to play with you) did not continue advocating for abolition of the house rule even as you took and spent the money. > > What do I win? - 1 ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/91 "2013-10-31T00:51:20Z")
> [@Mrs.Cake](#): > > My particular company is notable for having the largest endowment of all US opera companies in relation to its annual expenses by about a factor of three. Mrs. Regional Opera Company is a lucky woman. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/92 "2013-10-31T00:52:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I have a feeling this thread won’t be over until the fat lady sings. Yer Mom sings? ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/93 "2013-10-31T00:56:00Z")
Just to put some numbers on it (and since we’re talking specifically about Washington National, here are their funding sources from 2011: Revenue: Contributions $19,021,530 Government Grants $1,214,151 Program Services $14,354,627 Investments ($533,350) Special Events ($737,353) Sales $4,025 Other $0 Total Revenue $33,323,630 So $1.2 million out of $33 million. About 3.6%. > [@Mrs.Cake](#): > > I don’t often get into the pit, but as I happen to be the Finance director at a regional opera company AND I worked accounting at a Broadway theater, I can actually put some numbers on the table. Guessing based on the location in your profile: Des Moines Metro? ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/94 "2013-10-31T00:57:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He is not being forced to support prostitution notwithstanding his objection to the profession. He is forced to financially support the WNO. See the difference? Sorry Really, but that’s not the way I see it. There would be no “forcing” if there were no demand for it. By attending, Bricker is contributing to the demand that this activity be supported. He wants to righteously complain about a perceived injustice in the system? Cool.Big serving of STFU if he wants to piss on the system while partaking of the fruits thereof. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/95 "2013-10-31T01:01:41Z")
> [@Mrs.Cake](#): > > I don’t often get into the pit, but as I happen to be the Finance director at a regional opera company AND I worked accounting at a Broadway theater… just like almost every other arts, cultural, or educational entity does. Two words: Pledge Week. Like, stop the opera right before Tosca gets all stabby, and get Terry Gross to come out and whine for money. Set a goal, announce names of generous contributors, give out tote bags, build enthusiasm as you get! closer! to your! GOOOOAAAL! Maybe Allan Greenspan on their home answering machine. Oh, and make sure the orchestra is tuning…moves things along more briskly… You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/96 "2013-10-31T01:04:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > At that point my wife looked daggers at me and I dropped the conversation So THAT’S the secret! [looks daggers at Bricker] ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/97 "2013-10-31T01:06:15Z")
And for the record, I have no issue with public funds for the Arts. One of the few instances the trickle down effect might actually work. Tax breaks don’t do it when the savings are just sat on. But I can see the small push from public funds for events such as these getting the affluent to open their wallet for the dry cleaners/haberdasheries/florist/restaurant help/cabbies/stage crews etc, giving the local economy a healthy push. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/98 "2013-10-31T01:08:55Z")
Wow – I’m impressed. My local opera company (the Met, in New York) gets a minuscule percentage of its revenue from government grants: Contributions Contributions, Gifts & Grants $171,306,737 Federated Campaigns $0 Membership Dues $30,050 Fundraising Events $10,375,034 Related Organizations $11,962,120 **Government Grants $479,930** Total Contributions $194,153,871 Program Service Revenue $155,270,186 Total Primary Revenue $349,424,057 Other Revenue $12,667,045 TOTAL REVENUE $362,091,102 Bricker could attend operas here without too much angst. I’m actually kind of glad – as I said above, I’m not so sure how happy I am about government funding of opera companies, especially in big cities with a sizeable base of opera-goers. Edit: I should have sourced that. The numbers are for 2011, from [Charity Navigator](http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4087) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/99 "2013-10-31T01:09:55Z")
**Bricker** , did it ever occur to you that by horning in on a conversation that was not addressed to you, with a provocative, contrarian point of view, you spoiled the opera evening of every one else? Of course, to you, that might just take a the sting out of your oafish faux pax, so I will just shut my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/100 "2013-10-31T01:09:57Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Wondered away? Tried to sarcastically highlight that without the government help, there would be no opera for you to attend and complain about the funding for. > > But since you missed that boat, lets take a sabbatical on the sarcasm and go with a more elementary example. > > Let’s say you find prostitution and it’s exploitation of the socially vulnerable morally offensive. > > And yet you still patronize the local whore house, all the while bleating that you still find it morally objectionable but you’re there because you enjoy sex. > > Easy solution to not seeming like a hypocrite? If you find something morally objectionable, don’t fucking (figuratively) partake and complain about it afterwards (Or during) Brick. Absolutely absurd. What path do I take to show I like opera, and am willing to pay not only the current price, but a hike as well, so that the show could be seen without government funding necessary? And seriously – learn the definition of the words you use. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667.md?page=6)