# To the liberals who utterly dominate the season-ticket holding ranks for the Wash Nat Opera **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 30, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667 "2013-10-30T18:27:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/141 "2013-10-31T14:48:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > … The offense was the public exhortation that included the assumption I agreed with the political statement, without the opportunity to rebut and still remain polite. If my opinion had not been different, I’d have felt no need to rebut. … Why do you assume what it was that the speaker assumed. The speaker encouraged everyone to contact their representative and encourage funding of the arts. Did he preface that by saying, “I know you all agree with me … ?” I presume not. My assumption would be that he was stating his opinion and _eincouraging those who agree with him_ to follow his suggestion. That doesn’t have to be everyone who could hear, and in particular it doesn’t have to be you. And why do you think his exhortation required _rebuttal_? Do you think people _shouldn’t_ contacted their elected representative about issues that concern them? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/142 "2013-10-31T14:54:44Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Why do you assume what it was that the speaker assumed. The speaker encouraged everyone to contact their representative and encourage funding of the arts. Did he preface that by saying, “I know you all agree with me … ?” I presume not. My assumption would be that he was stating his opinion and _eincouraging those who agree with him_ to follow his suggestion. That doesn’t have to be everyone who could hear, and in particular it doesn’t have to be you. > > And why do you think his exhortation required _rebuttal_? Do you think people _shouldn’t_ contacted their elected representative about issues that concern them? Was it polite for him to do? Would it have been equally polite for me to present my view to the crowd in line? In other words, why did politeness mandate that his view can be shared with the crowd, but not mine? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/143 "2013-10-31T14:59:39Z")
While I agree with you in principle, frankly it’s because you should know better. How many people go to college football games and complain about the amount of money the state is paying the coach (which, it appears, is more than the government is giving the WNO for almost every major program)? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/144 "2013-10-31T15:04:05Z")
You didn’t say the offense was a lack of politeness. You said it was becasue he assumed you agreed with him, which is not at all evident; and that you didn’t feel able to rebut him, and I asked why you would feel the need to rebut someone who encourages people to contact their elected representatives. IMO, the reason you felt the need to rebut him was that you for some reason imagined that he was directing YOU to call your representative and encourage a vote contrary to your beliefs. IMO that impression was solely in your head. Also, it was your wife who made you shut up, not the guy. So maybe you should addressthe question of why you couldn’t speak your piece to **her**. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/145 "2013-10-31T15:05:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you know it happens – then aren’t you proving my point? No. You discounted the analogy of: going to a Catholic church and being shocked at being told to write your congressman. I’m saying it’s a good analogy. An opera-goer does not necessarily think the gubmint should shore opera up, nor does a person against abortion want their belief to be enforced by the gubmint (see John Kerry). ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/146 "2013-10-31T15:06:28Z")
I think we can all agree that there is at least one party in this sad spectacle that deserves more funding: Bricker’s wife. Poor woman. Please people, give as much as you can. She keeps him off your streets and out of your bars. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/147 "2013-10-31T15:28:10Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I think we can all agree that there is at least one party in this sad spectacle that deserves more funding: Bricker’s wife. Poor woman. Please people, give as much as you can. She keeps him off your streets and out of your bars. She should work on curtailing his internet time. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/148 "2013-10-31T15:35:55Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Also, it was your wife who made you shut up, not the guy. So maybe you should addressthe question of why you couldn’t speak your piece to **her**. True. But there was widespread agreement here that she was correct to do so. Her response is, in essence: I’d rather avoid contentious situations, no matter who is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/149 "2013-10-31T15:41:54Z")
I agree that smug assumptions about another person’s political beliefs is annoying, and that there’s nothing especially wrong with speaking up to counter such assumptions, nor anything hypocritical about \*\*Bricker’s \*\*position. But I’m surprised that this sort of thing happens to you rarely enough that it could ruin your night. I am assumed to have a particular political or religious belief in an annoying context at least a couple of times a year, as I imagine the many Americans are. Your suggestion in the OP that this is some kind of trait endemic to the SDMB and liberals at the opera is…strangely naive. It’s part of virtually every human group in innumerable contexts. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/150 "2013-10-31T15:43:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > True. But there was widespread agreement here that she was correct to do so. She’s your wife. She was correct to do so regardless of whether she was actually correct to do so. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/151 "2013-10-31T15:43:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > True. But there was widespread agreement here that she was correct to do so. But that is not what spoiled your evening. Was it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/152 "2013-10-31T15:46:47Z")
> [@bup](#): > > No. You discounted the analogy of: going to a Catholic church and being shocked at being told to write your congressman. > > I’m saying it’s a good analogy. An opera-goer does not necessarily think the gubmint should shore opera up, nor does a person against abortion want their belief to be enforced by the gubmint (see John Kerry). But the official position of the Church is that abortion rules should be enforced by the government. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/153 "2013-10-31T16:21:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But the official position of the Church is that abortion rules should be enforced by the government. I did not know that. Well, one more reason for me to remain non-Catholic. I like my churches to shut the hell up about what the political authority should be doing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/154 "2013-10-31T16:21:52Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > But that is not what spoiled your evening. Was it? No. What spoiled my evening was sitting in my seat crafting notional replies of ever-increasing clever snark while the last act was going on. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/155 "2013-10-31T16:26:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. What spoiled my evening was sitting in my seat crafting notional replies of ever-increasing clever snark while the last act was going on. L’esprit d’escalier. Which, frankly, sounds like the name of a really cool opera. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/156 "2013-10-31T16:41:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. What spoiled my evening was sitting in my seat crafting notional replies of ever-increasing clever snark while the last act was going on. How is that the fault of liberals? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/157 "2013-10-31T16:43:07Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How is that the fault of liberals? Were you not following the story? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/158 "2013-10-31T17:15:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. What spoiled my evening was sitting in my seat crafting notional replies of ever-increasing clever snark while the last act was going on. Apparently, this is your destiny. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/159 "2013-10-31T17:28:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But the sheer smug certainty that everyone around you shares your views, because they are so self-evidently correct as to be unchallengeable, reminded me of this place. I don’t think you’re a hypocrite. I don’t think the Kennedy Center (or any of the places in large cities) needs government support. I generally don’t think that the government should be supporting arts by improving access by keeping tickets at the $50-$300 range instead of the $$100-$1000 range. But I think YMMV. I also think that trying to drum up support for the opera at an opera isn’t out of bounds any mroe than trying to drum up support for school funding at a PTA meeting would be out of bounds. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But here’s the thing, and it’s not specific to opera but to most all public art forms: It’s damned expensive to produce. It _can’t_ survive just on ticket sales. Yes, it’s possible in the largest cities to take up subscriptions among the plutocrat community and support opera or theatre or museum etc., as long as the plutocrat community is feeling generous about it, that is. We’re talking about the Kennedy Center, they wouldn’t have a problem. Neither would any similar venues in places like NYC, San Francisco, Chicago and LA > [@](#): > > Even people who don’t work for it depend on government contracts - like \*\*Bricker \*\*himself, for instance. I thought Bricker was a lawyer. Solo practitioner IIRC. > [@Bricker](#): > > My comments don’t come from a distaste for opera – they come from a distaste of making other people pay for my entertainment. I once had someone tell me that they were supporting the arts by buying tickets to watch concerts. It was like THEY were subsidizing the GOVERNMENT desire to maintain an orchestra in the DC area. :smack: > [@Trinopus](#): > > I’ve noticed similar things happening at Science Fiction conventions. The general conversation largely assumes moderate-to-liberal opinions and values. I’ve never been but a lot of sci fi types seem pretty libertarian. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > If I was so bored with life that I ever went to a gun show, I’m quite certain that I’d hear opinions on gun control that differed sharply from my own. Or if I went to Fenway Park wearing a Yankee cap, I’d probably hear questions about my parentage. Or if I was a Catholic priest at a Baptist convention, I’d hear some views on theology that I disagreed with. Only the densest of dolts would go somewhere where his opinion would be guaranteed to be in the minority and have an evening ruined on discovery that people disagreed with him. I am pro-gun and when I go to gun shows I constantly hear opinions I disagree with. It would be silly to try and argue with them and I’m sure I’ not the only liberal gun owners at these shows. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Government funding is a requirement for high-quality, expensive opera to _exist_. We’ve already established that. No we haven’t. Because its not true. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Because the existence of high culture is a public good. (Not any given performance. But the existence of the institution. Loosely speaking, I’m discussing the fixed costs of cultural production.) By that rationale, isn’t the existence of a telecommunications system or electrical utilities or new shows also a public good? Why don’t we subsidize those? Oh yeah because they don’t need a subsidy. Neither does the Kennedy Center. > [@](#): > > But yeah, I do want want the Smithsonian Institution to be supported by taxpayer dollars. It’s a national treasure. > [Public good - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good) Thats different, because you are providing free access to people who might not otherwise have access to a private collection of pandas, monets or dinosaur bones. The Opera here costs about $200 for good seats and $80 for pretty bad seats (the $50 seats are either obstructed view or so far from the stage that you can touch the back wall) and you have to buy them way in advance, you can’t expect to show up on the night of the show and get anywhere near decent seats. This tells me that there is room to move the price of the tickets up a bit. I think if you asked bricker about the Smithsonian, he would support government subsidies to ensure free access. > [@drew870mitchell](#): > > At long last we are in agreement. Free Money is the _worst_ Monopoly house rule and it’s the one that makes everybody hate the game since it extends them for hours. Pfft, I’m still playing a game of diplomacy that started in high school. > [@Really Ate All Those Braiiins](#): > > Well, you have one appeal to the court of Flipping the Board Over and Storming Off in a Huff as a matter of right. But only if Obama wins reelection and refuses to repeal obamacare. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > We should fund opera so that poor folk can go to it… > I say that without knowing the opera’s pricing structure. If tickets to the opera are always priced out of the range of poor folk, I have a lot less interest in funding it. I don’t see a lot of poor people at the opera, at least not on the weekends. I think they might have discount student tickets during weekdays but tickets generally start at $50. > [@fachverwirrt](#): > > So $1.2 million out of $33 million. About 3.6%. So they don’t really need it right? Frankly, I think that large city operas should consider subsidizing smaller city venues. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667/160 "2013-10-31T17:31:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > We’re talking about the Kennedy Center, they wouldn’t have a problem. Neither would any similar venues in places like NYC, San Francisco, Chicago and LA [Sure about that?](http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2013/10/02/228171680/chronicle-of-a-death-foretold-new-york-city-opera-shuts-its-doors) > [@](#): > > This morning the New York City Opera announced that it was declaring bankruptcy and ceasing operations. Dubbed “The People’s Opera” by Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia when it was founded 70 years ago, the company was meant as an alternative to the richer Metropolitan Opera. It’s the place where exciting young singers like Beverly Sills and Placido Domingo made their New York debuts and where innovative productions of new operas premiered. > > In a tersely worded statement, the New York City Opera’s board acknowledged that its goal of raising $7 million to save the season had fallen short and that “the board and management will begin the necessary financial and operational steps to wind down the Company including initiating the Chapter 11 process.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-liberals-who-utterly-dominate-the-season-ticket-holding-ranks-for-the-wash-nat-opera/672667.md?page=9)