# To: The NYC mob of "planned civil disobedience" FUCK YOU **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545 "2003-03-27T15:56:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/181 "2003-04-01T19:52:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ace of Swords \* > \*\*Here’s something for the serious to chew on, in regards to the permit system being a tool of political supression. It’s [from the NY Civil Liberties Union](http://www.nyclu.org/citypolicies_stifle_021903.html): (Warning, contains more Constitutional Rationale) \*\* Thanks for the warning. I tend to get confused by inane rhetoric and misstatements about Constitutional Law. At least you warned me your link would be replete with it. I especially liked the fact that they made all these arguments to Judge Barbara Jones, and she rejected them. I’m sure there were no sour grapes at all, while they were whining about the “diminishment of the Constitution.” The fact, to no one’s surprise overlooked by the NYCLU, was, after September 11th, the city instituted a policy of banning **ALL** demonstrations, parades, or public events outside of the United Nations. The judge, rightly so, found this to policy to be content neutral in that it “makes no reference to the content of the regulated speech, and does not distinguish between event organizers or their views.” The Judge also relied, in part, on the fact that the organizers had failed to provice police with contact names for participating groups to help the police do their duty and protect public safety. But thanks for the link. It definitely answered my question regarding your appeal to rhetoric over analysis. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/182 "2003-04-01T19:55:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jonpluc \* > \*\*Ok Ace…lets get your position right out into the open because im slightly confused. You seem to think that the illegal actions of protesters are “bad apples” which seems to indicate you dont support illegal actions during protests. Then you seem to infer support of such action by stating, "Perhaps it was because nothing else was working? That we’ve been tired of being marginalized and herded and dismissed?"in reference to civil disobediance. So what is it? Is violence and laying down in the road ok for protesters to do in your world view? What is ok and what is going too far in your mind? \*\* Worldeater ive asked him this question now for the third time. He complains that he stated his position many times yet when i try to come up with reasonable hypotheticals to help understand where his position is on issues he just ignores me. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/183 "2003-04-01T19:59:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jonpluc \* > \*\*So still wondering about the answer to my question Ace…im not sure exactly where you stand on breaking the law to prove a point. Is destroying a government lab that experiments on animals ok as long as noone gets hurt? How about just deleting thier data? \ \*\* Damn!! sorry my previous post had wrong quote. THIS is the question ive now asked 3 times. Please carry on with your eregularly scheduled debate. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/184 "2003-04-01T20:02:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > 80% of the protesters voted? > > Sounds a bit high to me, I can’t prove it and neither can you. Nope, can’t prove it. Why’d you bring it up, exactly, if you didn’t want an opinion from people more likely to know? > [@](#): > > I say no. Feel free to jump in with your actual argument, rather than bandy about yes/no questions for all eternity. It is page 4, my dear **World Eater** , I suggest cutting straight to the chase. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/185 "2003-04-01T20:10:01Z")
I find it pathetic that you won’t even weight in on the whole point of this OP; which may I remind you is about people lying in the streets stopping traffic being a valid form of protest. Do you endorse it or not? ---
**Author:** ![BickByro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@BickByro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BickByro)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/186 "2003-04-01T20:44:00Z")
If Ace won’t bite, I will. I support lying in the streets stopping traffic as a valid form of protest. Fuck, I support the video for “Where the Streets Have No Name.” Yes, it would be a damn shame if people died because an ambulance or fire truck couldn’t get past the prone protesters. But that’s all quite academic; whether the protesters were standing up or lying down in the streets, they’d still be blocking them. I’d like to see some real statistics about how many unattended fires, deaths, robberies, rapes, etc. can be directly attributed to the protesters’ effect on traffic. Perhaps then we could compare those statistics to the effect of other sanctioned gatherings and actually get some idea of what _real_ damage was done by the traffic impasse. Other than that, all I hear is whining from people who were made late to work. Had you lived in Revolutionary times, I’m sure you’d have been saying, “Hey, I support American independence as much as anybody, BUT NOW I DON’T HAVE ANY TEA, ASSHOLES!!!” ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/187 "2003-04-01T21:49:31Z")
Well let your ability to at least answer show the difference between some anti-war folk that make an attempt at a point, and those who just beat on drums shouting “no blood for oil”. **Ace** , you remind me of a politician trying to squirm out of answering a simple question. You are no better then they are. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/188 "2003-04-02T16:56:38Z")
By the way **Ace** we’re still waiting for your opinion. Didn’t want you to forget about us. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/189 "2003-04-04T01:56:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ace of Swords \* > \*\*Everything you mentioned is either a side-outcome or and intended outcome. What’s to disagree with? > > Any event in NY has economic and social consequences, and yes, we may piss off a few people, though mostly everyone is entirely polarized at this point. These are unavoidable consequences in order to make our main point, which was to force people to consider that war does affect us. What we do overseas affects how people view us – which affects how many terrorists are produced. > > Your traffic delay should be the very least of your very Real worries about the consequences of the war in Iraq. > > Perhaps next time you’re so delayed, consider it a viewpoint-promoting sacrifice: Over in Iraq, we’re sacrificing our soldiers, in some cases, so as not to kill Iraqi citizens. If our military is willing to do that to make demonstrate the value of human life, how can we do less then to sacrifice an hour to visibly demonstrate to the world our objections to the war? > > Those protestors are arguably putting their lives on the line to improve the U.S.'s image overseas and make you safer. By comparison, an hour in your Explorer isn’t that much to ask. \*\* _ **That’s stupid.** _ In your scenario, commuters (and, more importantly, first-response crews) are being inconvenienced because of an artificial situation. You created the situation, and now you try to backpedal by saying, “Well, it’s good for them! It’ll make them think!”. Is that a deliberate cause-and-effect on the part of the protestors, or are you grasping at another one of the stalks that keep falling out of your strawman? And why can’t you get it through your cement skull that **if you don’t exercise your constitutional rights to assembly and free speech in accordance with local laws, then you don’t _have_ those constitutional rights.** I believe there were some protests back in the day, like the takeover of the dean’s office at Columbia by students and some (not all) demonstrations during the Free Speech Movement, during which protestors **purposely** assembled without a permit. That’s because their **goal** was to be arrested. As such, they didn’t claim brutality: what they focused on were bureaucratic flaws: not being read their rights and so forth. And they didn’t **claim** a legal right to assemble: the right to assemble was one of the things they were lobbying **for**. They wanted the local laws changed to accommodate the constitutional right to free speech. Now you live under those laws, **Ace**. And despite what you said in your post at 3/31 11:43am, the enforcement of them is not a game. I bet if Mario Savio met you, he would puke. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/190 "2003-04-04T17:03:04Z")
I wonder what **JD** and company think about this? ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545/191 "2003-04-04T21:07:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ace of Swords \* > \*\*So, we’re obstructionist assholes. > > Boo-hoo. > > I’d say the anti-American ignorant fucks are those who are more up in arms over a traffic delay then their government killing brown people in their name; Or the 47% who think Saddam and 9/11 are linked; or ignorant twits like **Wyld Stallyn** who thinks bashing in the heads of non-resisting protestors with a baseball bat is the right thing to do. \*\* Well at least you admit it. And for the record, if you’re blocking my way home from work to express your OPINION on something you fully deserve a baseball bat to the head and one to the groin as well. As everyone with even minimal sense has already said, protest all you want but don’t take up my time or city resources to do it. Assholes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-nyc-mob-of-planned-civil-disobedience-fuck-you/164545.md?page=9)