# To the Pastor at the Funeral I Attended Yesterday **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 9, 2006, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951 "2006-04-09T12:37:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/61 "2006-04-10T20:39:43Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > I’m sure I’m asking this in the wrong store, but why, in the name of all that’s short, fuzzy, and green, would someone who has accepted that as their definition of Christianity, give a pluperfect damn whether Joe, Jane, or Jambalaya Bloe has accepted Christ as their personal savior? Nothing they can do will save them, nor damn them: they are one of the elect, or not. 😕😕 > > So why bother with the offensive, disgusting, and just plain fractious sort of sermon at a funeral as the OP described? Aha - do you choose God or does He choose you? That’s an age old question. The short answer is: it’s a paradox. Calvinists believe in total depravity, we are unable to save ourselves and unable to choose God by ourselves. God chooses us, so we in turn choose Him. There have been many discussions and arguments about free will vs. election. Yes, I went through private school, sunday school, and catechism learning Calvinistic theory and I still can’t explain it in a nutshell. That is one of the reasons why the Reformed tradition is usually less evangelical than the other traditions though. But people still believe that God works through humanity to reveal Himself, so someone may turn to God because of God’s working through you. However you usually won’t hear Calvinists stress the ‘moment of conversion’ the way other traditions do. I don’t want to hijack the thread further but I know other threads have been done talking about free will and election. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/62 "2006-04-11T00:33:02Z")
And here I thought that TULIP referred to the Dutch influence that can be prevalent around here as well. (I live near South Holland and my husband worked there for a time. I got used to the question-since I have blonde hair and blue eyes-“are you Dutch?” and since the answer was “no”, I never got the follow up question, which is, “but are you one hundred percent[Dutch]?”). As to funeral services that are poorly done–if anything, they can delay some healing, IMO. I can think of worse things than calling the deceased by the wrong name etc, but really–it IS a bad thing. And I truly dislike the assumption by pastors and priests that everyone at a funeral is Christian. No, we don’t all share in Jesus’ love etc. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/63 "2006-04-11T03:01:46Z")
Total depravity? Sounds like fun. Actually, it sounds like Friday night at Sky. Anyhow, I would love to hear a story about someone actually standing up to one of these, um, ministers during the funeral they’re in the process of ruining. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/64 "2006-04-11T03:12:55Z")
Well, I asked my father. Yes, stitching is involved, but my father considers that no more than a medical procedure, to make sure the person is presentable. No more than sutures. After all, you really don’t want the mouth flopping open during the viewing, do you? As for cutting limbs and breaking bones, he said, and I quote, “I have never snapped a single bone in my entire life.” I think I also insulted him-he wasn’t too pleased with the question. So there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/65 "2006-04-11T04:57:07Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > One of the more disturbing things I’ve ever seen at a funeral was a little girl (elementary school age) who was having fits because her grandmother and mother and aunts were trying to force her to touch the old dead man in the coffin. You were at my grandfather’s funeral, Sampiro? :eek: Yeah, around the time I got to the big box and saw Papa lying inside, I didn’t want to be anywhere near there. I bounced back all right afterward, though, and danced around with the flower someone’d given me. I’m told I said it was to show my grandfather up in heaven, but I think I was just trying to have SOME cheerfulness in that place. And ditto **swampbear**. I’m too lazy to get up and grab my BCP right now, but I think there’s a little place in the funeral service for a homily. It’s just never of the “get you right with God” sort. I don’t think that my very Baptist great-aunt’s funeral had that atmosphere either. It was the celebration of a 95-year-old woman who really HAD given a lot to her community and was crazy-involved in her church. They had enough real compliments for her that they didn’t have time to yell at us. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/66 "2006-04-11T05:21:04Z")
This happened to a friend of mine as well. His father passed away about two years ago. His father and mother had found religion late in their life, joining one of those right wing sects. Their one son joined up as well, later on. My friend did not. At the funeral, the pastor gave a real long speach that had NOTHING to do with the deceased. He went on about “sexual sin”. To make matters worse, when he referred to the family, he left my friend out, speaking only about the others. I guess since my friend had not subscribed to his cult, he was not worth mentioning. Fuck these kind of people and fuck their religion. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/67 "2006-04-11T10:57:49Z")
When the pastor loses his head and starts making an irrelevant sermon at a funeral, does anybody ever stand up and challenge him? Boo him off the stage? I’d be mighty tempted. If it were my own loved one’s funeral, I’d likely stand up and berate him, followed by chasing him off physically, assuming he could be chased away by a middle-aged woman of average height. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/68 "2006-04-11T12:23:47Z")
Having attended only Catholic funerals, I can attest just how dull they are. I have attended a Greek/Slavic Orthodox double funeral ( a sister and mom were killed in a hit and run) and even though the whole thing was in Yugoslavian ( the country where the mom and her daughter were from) it was singing everything. Not like the Baptists, but the priest and his henchmen doing this beautiful canting. It was by far the saddest funeral I’ve ever been too. And the coffins were open. Being that they were both hit head on while walking by some arsehole who left the scene, one can only imagine all the work that went into patching them up for the final goodbye. ( Never got close to the caskets. ) Personally, attending a fire and brimstone altar calling funeral would be a welcome change. I might even pay attention during the clambake. (and burst out laughing alot.) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/69 "2006-04-11T12:48:58Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Total depravity? Sounds like fun. Actually, it sounds like Friday night at Sky. > > Anyhow, I would love to hear a story about someone actually standing up to one of these, um, ministers during the funeral they’re in the process of ruining. No kidding…couldn’t one of the eulogisers (is that a word?) say something contrary to, or in addition to, whatever the faddah said? Where were her friends? Sometimes the funeral is staged to appease a particular person (I think the parents probably wanted it to come down this way. After all, he’s their pastor or faddah or whatever). Passive aggression, once removed. If they feel he did her wrong, they should have said something in defense of her life and the person she was. They hired him. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/70 "2006-04-11T13:14:03Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > Personally, attending a fire and brimstone altar calling funeral would be a welcome change. I might even pay attention during the clambake. (and burst out laughing alot.) They _are_ interesting, but there’s never a clambake. It’s always ham and cheese sandwhiches with marshmallow salad. On the plus side, you _do_ get to speculate on the level of skankiness it takes for a girl to wear a see-thru blouse to a relative’s funeral. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/71 "2006-04-11T13:26:44Z")
My 90 year old grandmother’s funeral (when it happens- she’s still going strong) is going to be a joy and a blessing to organise…not. She’s Catholic- the only one in the entire family. Her husband was Jewish, her parents were Anglican. Of her three children, one is an Atheist who think religion is the opium of the masses, one is a nutcase Free Presbyterian who believe the Pope is the Antichrist and the RCC is the whore of Babylon and one (my mother) is a perfectly normal and sane ordinary Presbyterian who has no strong feelings one way or the other about the RCC and the Pope and is just happy her mother find comfort in her religion. Granny’s a former daily communicant who can no longer regularly attend Church because she finds it too exhausting, and has many friends in her local congregation who would want to attend her funeral- but as I’ve said, my uncle hates the RCC and would never consent to have her funeral held in a Catholic Church. Since granny is getting cremated so that her ashes can be taken back to Zimbabwe and buried beside her husband (at some point in the future, when it’s safer to travel there), it looks like the best solution is going to be a family-only service service (without mass) at the crematorium, and a memorial service at her own church. Still, she can’t decide, so it’s probably going to be a major soure of discord between her children after she’s dead. My mother keeps trying to broach the subject, so that at least when the time comes she’ll be able to tell her siblings what their mother actually wanted, but granny is having none of it. Any officiant who tried the “come to Jesus/the true Church” crap at granny’s funeral would find themselves on the wrong side of pretty much every single family member, so I hope to goodness no-one tries it, although it’s not likely because I don’t think it’s the done thing here. For example, even though irishfella and I had been living together before we married, our minister didn’t even mention it at our wedding. As an aside, Irish extended families usually have one uncle who is tasked specifically with the funeral arrangements. This uncle would be the one to arrange the funeral directors, church, priest, wake and to sort everything (and I mean everything) out. When someone died, you just called the uncle and he dealt with everything for you. It also meant that the uncle could arrange discounts, on the basis of repeat business! In my dad’s family, this job was given to Uncle Billy, which meant that everything went like clockwork, the service was always tasteful and appropriate and the bereaved were spared the details. Sadly, of course, when Uncle Billy died, no-one in the extended family had a clue what to do, and his funeral went down in family history as a huge shambles! Thankfully, by the next family funeral Uncle Joe had taken over Billy’s job and everything was much smoother. Irish funerals have closed coffins, family pallbearers (who actually do shoulder the coffin, it’s not done by the undertakers) and usually only the men of the family attend the burial (the ladies are supposed to go home to brew tea and make sandwiches). ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/72 "2006-04-11T14:22:54Z")
> [@bluethree](#): > > When the pastor loses his head and starts making an irrelevant sermon at a funeral, does anybody ever stand up and challenge him? Boo him off the stage? I’d be mighty tempted. If it were my own loved one’s funeral, I’d likely stand up and berate him, followed by chasing him off physically, assuming he could be chased away by a middle-aged woman of average height. No-- they know they have a captive audience, and they take full advantage of it. I’ve never seen anyone brave enough to overcome the stigma of “making a scene at a funeral” to stop a sermon, no matter how irrelevant it may be. They see it as their chance to preach to people who might not ever listen to a preacher at other times. (I swear to God, once I was sure there was going to be an altar call right in front of the casket.) Some feel it’s their duty to bring souls to Jesus at every chance they get, no matter how inapprorpriate the setting. As I said in my last post, at the last funeral I attended, the preacher went on and on about eschewing “sexual sin” and how important it was to be Saved. It had absolutely nothing to do with the deceased, who was a happily middle-aged married man. (If he was ever involved in “sexual sin”, I’d eat my hat.) He ended with a rambling “come to Jesus” message. The benefit of this was that every eye in the house was dry. I’d started crying during one of the sons’ eulogy. The sermon gave me plenty of time to compose myself. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/73 "2006-04-11T15:12:50Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > They see it as their chance to preach to people who might not ever listen to a preacher at other times. (I swear to God, once I was sure there was going to be an altar call right in front of the casket.) Some feel it’s their duty to bring souls to Jesus at every chance they get, no matter how inapprorpriate the setting. I’ve been to an unfortunate number of funerals in Pentecostal churches the last few years (my parents’ generation is our family is dying off :(, and there’s been an altar call at every single one of them. The best thing I can say about it is that at least my uncle hasn’t singled me out by name at any of them, as he did once or twice when I was in my early twenties. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/74 "2006-04-11T15:34:01Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > I might even pay attention during the clambake. Now why are you dragging the Scientologists into this? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/75 "2006-04-11T15:58:39Z")
I’ve never been at a funeral where this happened, and it’s probably a good thing. You see, I’m notoriously frank and tactless and, while I might not say anything during the service, I could easily see myself getting angry enough to walk out. I also promise you, if I got half a chance, I _would_ say a word to the minister about how completely tactless and inappropriate it was. Face it. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve faced down a Fundamentalist. This is incredible. In my book, it isn’t Christianity; it’s cruelty. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/76 "2006-04-11T16:09:18Z")
At my aunt and uncle’s services, it was Catholic, so pretty much by the book as far as I could tell, except that some family members got up to speak and share regarding the deceased. No problems there. It was at a friend’s service, mentioned earlier, that we were not too happy with the pastor going off about the people on the space shuttle not being saved, etc. It was Presbyterian, if that means anything. I just object to anyone turning a funeral service into a screed. It’s opportunistic, pushy, and has nothing at all to do with respecting and remembering the departed. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/77 "2006-04-11T17:08:40Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Why do so many folks assume that a minister’s role is to bring comfort and solace and peace? Around my parts, their role is very often to tell you what god wants you to do, and inform you that you’re not living up to it. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t want a minister anywhere **near** my parts. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/78 "2006-04-11T17:09:53Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t want a minister anywhere near my parts. Especially not if you’re dead. Eww. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/79 "2006-04-11T17:11:43Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > I’ve been to an unfortunate number of funerals in Pentecostal churches the last few years (my parents’ generation is our family is dying off :(, and there’s been an altar call at every single one of them. The best thing I can say about it is that at least my uncle hasn’t singled me out by name at any of them, as he did once or twice when I was in my early twenties. What’s an altar call? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-pastor-at-the-funeral-i-attended-yesterday/351951/80 "2006-04-11T17:25:33Z")
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