To the Pro-lifers...

Well, I consider it an absolute moral imperative of the first order to make it possible for a woman to have sex without the risk of pregnancy hovering over her every time she does.

Only if you are female–have you noticed that? Does it ever strike you that this is an arrangement that sets men and women up as adversaries, situationally poised to try their best to manipulate each other? Don’t you feel ANY moral compunction to try to bring an end to this patriarchal cesspool of sexualized opposition, if we can?

You can’t explain it and I can’t comprehend it. One significant consequence of sex up until the last century was a chance to get dead of childbirth complications. Does it bug you that puerperal fever has been largely eliminated? Would it be a real bummer for you if someone came up with a cure for AIDS, herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea, and chlamydia?

::shaking head in bewilderment:: Sexuality and its expressions should have, as their consequents, the range of sensations and emotions that they put you through. Reproduction is best brought under our volitional control, though; there is no reason you should have to have sex to reproduce, or should have to reproduce as a result of sex.

Four hundred years ago, people came into physical puberty at roughly the same time they were of social age to begin comporting themselves as adults. For the cultures and classes for whom marriage was an imperative, it was a reasonable marrying age; for other cultures and classes, other options for being sexually active were structured as available. Twelve thousand years ago, people came into physical puberty and became sexually active; pregnancies occurred, and when they did, the hunter-gatherer tribes of which we were composed most likely ensured that the young mom and her kid got their share of the food, for which each individual labored an estimated average of 8 hours per week.

But nowadays, people start coming into physical puberty as early as 10 (for the girls at least) but are not socially established in a position where they can effectively reproduce without putting hardships on their families or society at large (or both) for at least another 10, more often closer to 20 years. So we have a social problem.

And the social problem is NOT that “underage kids are having sex before marriage” or “…before they are in a situation where it is appropriate to reproduce”, but rather that we are putting our adolescents and youth through a totally unreasonable and uncomfortable no-win situation.

And THAT is a sin.

Here’s a comment from WAY out there…Maybe some of sex education should be “really great ways to enjoy sex without penile-vaginal intercourse.” I know this sounds scandalous, it vaguely horrifies me, but it seems to me one possible solution if you’ve got (a) young people determined in experiencing sexual pleasure and (b) birth control that is imperfect and/or underutilized.

One of my former boyfriends had an ex-girlfriend who was so absolutely terrified of pregnancy, she could never have sexual intercourse the “usual” way. They had a hell of a sex life, though. They did everything but, and didn’t feel like they were missing out on anything.

I am having a hard time imagining my son sitting in on a high school class on the proper use of a dildo, the joys of anal sex, and the most partner-friendly ways to facilitate a blowjob, but hey, it’s an idea…

My former neighbor Jerry Falwell would have a coronary reading this.

Well, I dunno … there’s a degree of intimacy in straight penis-vagina intercourse that I just don’t experience any other way.

I think I get your point, AHunter3 - thanks for the clarification. It seems I (and others) have been concentrating on the here-and-now reality of present-day sexual relations and consequences, while what you are proposing is a radical re-tooling (no pun intended) of the sexual dynamic - the ability to engage in sexual relations without risk of pregnancy.

Sounds a bit 1984-ish to me, but hell, I’m all for it. Speaking as one too young to have experienced the sexual freedom of the '70’s yet not bold enough to have taken full advantage of the “casual sex” of the '80’s, where do I donate for the research? :slight_smile:

BTW, is my paraphrase on target at all?

When did not having consequences to our actions become a moral imperative?

Facing the consequences of your actions whether it is having sex, drinking and driving, smoking dope, spending money you don’t have, cheating on your tax return, cheating on your spouse, etc. is just a fact of life. Sometimes it doesn’t work out like you hoped it would, and you have to face the consequences. Sure wouldn’t it be great if we could win the “immunity challenge” of life and be spared at the tribal council. But hey, that’s not the way it works.

I just thought of a way that a woman can have sex and insure her ability to not get pregnant. Hysterectomy! But there’s a consequence to that action as well.

Whoa, you’re classifying sex with a whole bunch of things that are considered naughty, against the mores of society, illegal, dishonest…

God, you make sex sound so… DIRTY!

Every person who is pro-life should utilize the energy they dedicate in overturning Roe v. Wade and instead focus on developing methods and advocationg programs that help reduce the amount of abortions in the country. I don’t mean driving ob-gyns out of each county or firebombing clinics. I mean long-term programs, such as improving neo-natal care; advocating comprehensive sex-education in schoos and churches, wherever children meet, as opposed to none at all, and initiating pro-baby programs that don’t stop the minute the baby is born.

That being said, I for one don’t want this country to be like Russia, where abortion is the preferred method of birth control.