# To the State and Local governments: Just put up toll booths and shut down the speed traps. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266 "2009-07-25T23:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/21 "2009-07-26T19:14:51Z")
Our local inerstate stretch is ridiculous. At some points, the speed limit drops to 45 mph. From 55 or 60. No, there is absolutely no logical reason or need for this, and nobody actually drives the speed limit. It would be stupid, wasteful, and outright _dangerous_. Moreover, if people drived that speed limit, it would disrupt the business environment of the entire city. Speed limits are frequently set knowing that it’s unsufficient to meet capacity on the road. Police departments then fund themselves considerably through tickets. Forutnately, the local PD is pretty honest about this, and don’t ticket people until about 75 mph at least. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/22 "2009-07-26T21:47:49Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Who cares WHY a section of road is 25 mph? Usually, it’s because it’s in the middle of a downtown. You don’t have much experience with actual speed traps, do you? If the speed is reduced in places where it is expected, such as downtown areas, or school zones, few people have a problem with it. Speed traps are specifically designed to trap motorists on stretches where the speed limit drops for [no discernible reason](http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=050722_Ne_A1_Speed30746), or when the speed limit change is unclearly marked: > [@](#): > > BIG CABIN [Oklahoma]-- The state Department of Public Safety has declared this Craig County town a “speed trap” for reportedly making 72 percent of its revenue from traffic fines. Any municipality that makes 72% of its income from traffic citations has a huge motivation to make sure that revenue stream is always growing. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/23 "2009-07-26T21:49:38Z")
I agree with the thrust of the OP, especially with things like EZ Pass, toll booths would be a good idea. They’d have the added benefit that you wouldn’t need to pull people over for speeding. If you get from one toll booth to another too quickly, you get a ticket, it’s pretty simple. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/24 "2009-07-27T03:37:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Any municipality that makes 72% of its income from traffic citations has a huge motivation to make sure that revenue stream is always growing. Yeah, we were always careful going through Big Cabin. We never got caught there, but we saw a lot of people who had been pulled over, and we saw a lot of cop cars lurking around the place. And they had a lot of odd speed limits, too. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/25 "2009-07-27T03:45:03Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > Yes, the State and Local governments need the money but getting it by kicking the hell out of safe drivers is pure BS. If you need the money so bad, put up a toll booth and nick everybody for a dime. Don’t destroy our driving records so the insurance companies can rape us. Easier than toll booths: road tax. That’s at the State level, isn’t it? I’m sorry but it’s been over 10 years since I had a car in the US so I’m fuzzy on the details. Could it also be levied at the local level? Its Spanish equivalent is local. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/26 "2009-07-27T03:47:57Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Easier than toll booths: road tax. That’s at the State level, isn’t it? I’m sorry but it’s been over 10 years since I had a car in the US so I’m fuzzy on the details. I am not familiar with the concept of a road tax; most of our roads are paid for through taxes on gasoline. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/27 "2009-07-27T14:04:37Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > Obviously, you are not listening or you just don’t get it. When the cop is acting embarrassed by issuing the citation you get a pretty clear idea of what the directives are that he is operating under. All of these instances were in areas that are under economic duress. I’ll say it louder, IT WAS NOT A MATTER OF PUBLIC SAFETY. If you are complaining about the tickets, then I say you have no reason to complain. You violated the speed limit, and you got nailed. Amazing how that’s not happening to me, and I do a buttload of driving. If you are complaining about the speed limit itself, then the question to ask is: why is the limit set at that number? If it’s some place you don’t go often, then you may not have much you can do about it (you can certainly check to see if it is a “speed trap” (about which I am quite familiar, tyvm, and amazingly, I don’t get caught by them because I, you know, SLOW DOWN when there is a sign ahead that talks about slower speeds 😉 ) and, if it is, maybe get the ticket dismissed, or perhaps get someone to look into the speed trap (in Ohio, they actually will disincorporate towns that get all their revenue from speed traps! :p)). If it is a local area, then you can be the agitator for making the limit different, assuming there really is no other reason for the limit. But I expect you’re just pissed at getting caught driving faster than the limit, which you think you ought to be able to do because you think it’s safe. Which I have no sympathy for. > [@](#): > > Warning, you can take your 30 years of driving, go to the places I did and shove your driving record up where the sun don’t shine. Then I’ll leave it to you to explain it all to your insurance company (who you’ve never made a claim against). You know, you can hate the messenger if you want, but the message isn’t any less valid for that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/28 "2009-07-27T14:07:28Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I am not familiar with the concept of a road tax; most of our roads are paid for through taxes on gasoline. Same thing, in a way. I think he’s talking about taxing a driver on the basis of milage used, similar to how we tax trucks for road use. Gasoline taxes are, in my way of thinking, an easier way of accomplishing the same thing, and better policy because they tax inefficient engines more heavily, which encourages buying vehicles with better milage. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/29 "2009-07-27T14:15:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Any municipality that makes 72% of its income from traffic citations has a huge motivation to make sure that revenue stream is always growing. I actually consider such behavior worthy of the death penalty. However ridiculous, this is a clear case of abuse of government power for private gain, and as such deserves the most vicious punishments imaginable, even if there were no other reason than that it would serve as incentive for others to avoid such actions. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/30 "2009-07-27T14:16:58Z")
The toll booth idea isn’t part of the equation. While it may be different in other states, in my state the friendly DOT doesn’t make a nickel off speeding tickets. Fuel taxes, vehicle registration yes, tickets no. Not to say that ticket revenue isn’t a significant part of city and county revenue (and a bit of the state police budget as well), but it doesn’t help to maintain your roads. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/31 "2009-07-27T16:10:41Z")
How about all traffic fines being donated to a worthy charity? Then we will see if these speed limits are for revenue or for safety. If have my ideas… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/32 "2009-07-27T18:03:28Z")
If they are for revenue, then at least they’re a voluntary tax, like lottery tickets. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/33 "2009-07-27T18:59:14Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > If they are for revenue, then at least they’re a voluntary tax, like lottery tickets. Or cigarette taxes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/34 "2009-07-27T19:28:32Z")
To any of you posters that are saying “Don’t speed and you won’t have to worry about it” I would bet you a dollar to a stale donut that if I rode in your car with you for 5 miles, I could point out at least 3 separate traffic violations that you have committed. Anyone not think so? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/35 "2009-07-27T19:45:41Z")
A subset of the posters you’re talking about, such as our dear **badlyburnttoast** , wish to rise in status relative to people who do have tickets. > [@badlyburnttoast](#): > > I think no, tollbooths are terrible. I like it better how it is - people like you who think they can drive whatever speed they want can pay my part for me (thanks, btw)._[NB, note status-raising snark]_ You can distinguish these people because they do not attempt to defend the law on practical grounds\*, but simply say “it’s the law,” knowing that they will gain relative status by being on one side of the line, however arbitrary. \*other defenders in this thread \*do \*in fact defend the law on practical grounds, making it a legitimate debate rather than a primitive status play. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/36 "2009-07-28T00:12:32Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > To any of you posters that are saying “Don’t speed and you won’t have to worry about it” I would bet you a dollar to a stale donut that if I rode in your car with you for 5 miles, I could point out at least 3 separate traffic violations that you have committed. > > Anyone not think so? First of all, I would take that bet. 😉 Second of all, what difference would it make if you did? The issue here is simple: don’t speed, you won’t get cited for speeding. If you can prove that people get cited for speeding without actually, you know, violating the speed limit, then you have some room to talk. 😉 ETA: One thought though, that what you are saying brings up: one of the things I dislike about traffic law enforcement in so many states is the radar gun. It causes the state police in so many locations to be sitters, rather than movers about. One nice thing about California was that the CHP was always in motion, because with very few exceptions, they didn’t/couldn’t use radar to prove speeding violations. So a driver who habitually violates other vehicle code prohibitions is more likely to be found and dealt with (improper passing, improper use of signals, etc.). Indeed, in California I was pulled over once by CHP for having illegal covers over the headlights and an illegal sunshade in the rear window (we had a baby at the time). Resulted in a fix-it ticket, issued on an otherwise lovely April Sunday (I remember it well because it was the same day that Nicklaus won the Masters in '86). ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/37 "2009-07-28T01:05:07Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > To any of you posters that are saying “Don’t speed and you won’t have to worry about it” I would bet you a dollar to a stale donut that if I rode in your car with you for 5 miles, I could point out at least 3 separate traffic violations that you have committed. > > Anyone not think so? A dollar? That’s it? Just mail it in. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/38 "2009-07-28T02:57:53Z")
> [@MonkeyMensch](#): > > A dollar? That’s it? Just mail it in. Yes, which has a lot to do with the OP, which was originally in The Pit. The whole rant is not about a few bucks. 30 years ago you paid a fine of $10 or $20 dollars and it was pretty much over with. Today, the fines run over $100, you get points on your record (which States share with each other), there are surcharges that may go on for several years, and the insurance companies use the information to slam drivers that have never made an accident claim, for thousands of dollars. It’s as if you lost a bet in a crooked casino and then got sent a bill of a thousand dollars for the next 3 years. I’ll pay the stupid fine. That’s not the problem. The problem is that in too many cases these days, traveling a few mph over the surreptitiously posted speed limit, while it should be considered little more than a parking ticket, has serious long-term consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/39 "2009-07-28T03:24:07Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Apparently the DC chief went so far as to call users of it “cowardly”. Funny that. They are. They’re willing to break the law but too cowardly to face the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266/40 "2009-07-28T03:59:48Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Well, I dunno, maybe if you _DIDN’T SPEED_, maybe you wouldn’t be getting pulled over. There are places where not speeding is dangerous. There was a place here for about a year (just recently finally changed) that was a “construction zone” (though I never once saw a single worker there and no construction seems to have been done) that dropped down to 45mph on the freeway right before going around a curve and under a stack of bridges. NO ONE slowed down. I stayed in the far right lane and slowed down to 54mph just to minimalize the penalty if I got nailed but those 9mph over were for fear for my safety. I got honked at and almost hit a few times. I (probably coincidentally) never saw a cop there, but I have a hard time figuring out what that place was if not a speed trap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-state-and-local-governments-just-put-up-toll-booths-and-shut-down-the-speed-traps/504266.md?page=3)