# To the U.S. Navy - the USS John P. Murtha is going way too far. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219 "2010-04-15T15:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/1 "2010-04-15T15:42:03Z")
There has been a distressing trend for some time in the Navy to name some ships after powerful politicians - especially naval patrons. Now, by this I don’t mean naming aircraft carriers after George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt or Abraham Lincoln - these are appropriate national memorials for national heroes. This starts to break down when ships start getting named for John Stennis or Carl Vinson or John Warner. And now it has reached probably the height of absurdity - the Navy has proposed naming an amphibious ship [the USS John P. Murtha.](http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/04/navy_murtha_gator_041310w/) The Navy Times article cited indicates that this may be a controversial choice - I think that may put things a bit delicately. And aside from the pork and the backroom deals that came to define Murtha over the years, the comments over Haditha might be the dealbreaker. Even if Murtha was right, he was impolitic, and the class of ship in question here is designed to carry 700 Marines. The Navy needs to cut this bullshit right now - and if that means renaming the _George H.W. Bush_ and the _Gerald Ford_, so be it. Consequential things like ships should be named for consequential people. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/2 "2010-04-15T15:51:34Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > The Navy needs to cut this bullshit right now - and if that means renaming the _George H.W. Bush_ and the _Gerald Ford_, so be it. Consequential things like ships should be named for consequential people. > > Thoughts? Don’t forget Reagan. You forgot [Reagan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ronald_Reagan_%28CVN-76%29). That should’ve never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/3 "2010-04-15T16:01:55Z")
Once they named something after Reagan, all standards were shattered anyway. You might as well name a ship the USS Titty Fuck for all the difference it makes. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/4 "2010-04-15T16:08:43Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Even if Murtha was right, he was impolitic Very arguable, that, and it’s hard even to claim he was wrong. > [@](#): > > Consequential things like ships should be named for consequential people. Who would be a better choice? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/5 "2010-04-15T16:15:43Z")
Is that really a major ship? I am honestly asking because I don’t know. How many ships are in the Navy? Do we name all of them? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/6 "2010-04-15T16:16:21Z")
Actually, ships of that class have all been named after cities or counties, so a better choice would have been not naming it after a person at all. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/7 "2010-04-15T16:17:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You might as well name a ship the USS Titty Fuck for all the difference it makes. Where do I sign? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/8 "2010-04-15T16:22:13Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Is that really a major ship? I am honestly asking because I don’t know. How many ships are in the Navy? Do we name all of them? It is 684 feet long, carries a crew of 365 officers and enlisted plus a landing force of 700 Marines and their equipment. Pretty major. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/9 "2010-04-15T16:24:50Z")
The tightie righties were all OK with Murtha and at one time was the Official Democrat We Can Almost Stand. His pronouncements on military policy carried great weight. Then he finally spat out the Iraq koolaid and he instantly became persona non grata among the wingnuts. So The Order Of The Perpetually Twisted Knicker is up in arms because a ship was named after him. Boo freaking hoo. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/10 "2010-04-15T16:26:30Z")
Personally, I think it’s a silly thing to name a ship after a person. FWIW, the first ship on which I served in the Navy was the USS CARL VINSON (CVN 70). ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/11 "2010-04-15T16:28:03Z")
I don’t think ships should be named after people – or at least, not people who haven’t been dead for thirty years. But if you’re going to do it at all, I’m with **Dio**. Once you name something after Reagan, I will hear no criticism of anything named after any Democrat. (Personally, I’m holding out for the U.S.S. Abbie Hoffman.) –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/12 "2010-04-15T16:35:54Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > the comments over Haditha might be the dealbreaker I’m currently in the middle of a five-month intensive course of study of these comments and their implications, so I can see how… No I’m not. Uh, what are you talking about? Could you throw me a bone here? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/13 "2010-04-15T16:42:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Once they named something after Reagan, all standards were shattered anyway. Reagan was a two term President of the United States. If you’re going to name a U.S. Navy ship after a person, it’s hard to think of a BETTER choice. Seriously, John Murtha, whatever you think of his personal politics, is not one of the 500 most important Americans you could name a warship after. He might not be in the top thousand. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/14 "2010-04-15T16:49:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Once they named something after Reagan, all standards were shattered anyway. You might as well name a ship the USS Titty Fuck for all the difference it makes. Wouldn’t sailors prefer being on the USS Titty Fuck over the USS John P. Murtha? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/15 "2010-04-15T16:51:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Reagan was a two term President of the United States. If you’re going to name a U.S. Navy ship after a person, it’s hard to think of a BETTER choice. > > Seriously, John Murtha, whatever you think of his personal politics, is not one of the 500 most important Americans you could name a warship after. He might not be in the top thousand. According to the OP, it should only be after national heroes. Reagan doesn’t qualify, nor does Murtha. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/16 "2010-04-15T16:54:45Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > The Navy needs to cut this bullshit right now - and if that means renaming the _George H.W. Bush_ and the _Gerald Ford_, so be it. Consequential things like ships should be named for consequential people. > > Thoughts? I can agree with this. I don’t have any particular dislike of Murtha but I think a person should be dead a long, long time before they get a ship named after them. It gives history a chance to come to a consensus on that person’s legacy and will help limit the amount of sailors forced to sail on a ship named after somebody they find controversial. I’d be pissed if I joined the navy and got assigned to the USS Dick Cheney or USS Donald Rumsfeld. I would, however, be honored to serve aboard the USS Titty Fuck. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/17 "2010-04-15T17:00:18Z")
> [@Terraplane](#): > > I would, however, be honored to serve aboard the USS Titty Fuck. I sense a new trend. Headline in 2025: “US Navy dispatches Titty Fuck, Dirty Sanchez to Persian Gulf” ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/18 "2010-04-15T17:03:30Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I’m currently in the middle of a five-month intensive course of study of these comments and their implications, so I can see how… > > No I’m not. Uh, what are you talking about? Could you throw me a bone here? [Wikipedia explains all](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Murtha#Haditha.2C_Iraq_killings). Apparently Murtha accused some Marines of killing Afghan civilians in cold blood before an investigation into their actions was carried out. Charges have been dropped on all but one of the Marines involved. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/19 "2010-04-15T17:04:20Z")
I think the OP is exaggerating the break with tradition that this represents. As the [Navy itself points out](http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq63-1.htm), > [@](#): > > As with many other things, the procedures and practices involved in Navy ship naming are as much, if not more, products of evolution and tradition than of legislation. As we have seen, the names for new ships are personally decided by the Secretary of the Navy. The Secretary can rely on many sources to help him reach his decisions. Each year, the Naval Historical Center compiles primary and alternate ship name recommendations and forwards these to the Chief of Naval Operations by way of the chain of command. These recommendations are the result of research into the history of the Navy and by suggestions submitted by service members, Navy veterans, and the public. Ship name source records at the Historical Center reflect the wide variety of name sources that have been used in the past, particularly since World War I. Ship name recommendations are conditioned by such factors as the name categories for ship types now being built, as approved by the Secretary of the Navy; the distribution of geographic names of ships of the Fleet; names borne by previous ships which distinguished themselves in service; names recommended by individuals and groups; and names of naval leaders, national figures, and deceased members of the Navy and Marine Corps who have been honored for heroism in war or for extraordinary achievement in peace. […] > > Into the mid-1970s attack submarines continued to be named for sea creatures, though a few were named for such legislators as Richard B. Russell and L. Mendel Rivers. Ships of the more recent Los Angeles class bear the names of American cities. One exception, Hyman G. Rickover, honors the man who has been called “the father of the nuclear Navy.” The new Seawolf class has departed from this scheme, with Seawolf representing a “denizen of the deep” and Connecticut named for the state; the third ship of the class has not yet been named. If an attack submarine could be named after [L. Mendel Rivers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Mendel_Rivers) in the 1970’s, I don’t see it as any kind of a stretch whatsoever to name an amphibious transport dock after Murtha today. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219/20 "2010-04-15T17:07:18Z")
Here are some other US Navy ships named after people. How many of these meet the Ops criteria? A1C William H. Pitsenbarger Abraham Lincoln Admiral W.M. Callaghan Alan Shepard Albert David Albert J. Myer Alexander Hamilton Alfred A. Cunningham Allen M. Sumner Amelia Earhart Andrew J. Higgins Andrew Jackson Arleigh Burke Arnold J. Isbell Arthur L. Bristol Arthur W. Radford Aubrey Fitch OK - those are just the ones beginning with “A” - but you get the idea. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-u-s-navy-the-uss-john-p-murtha-is-going-way-too-far/536219.md?page=2)