# To the woman down the hall who's "allergic" to the soap in the ladies' room... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678 "2004-05-11T19:38:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/121 "2004-05-18T19:37:02Z")
Wow. What a bunch of non-answers. Over and over again, _non_-answers. No one ever answers whether or not they’d call a stranger on dumping trash or doing something else “disgusting” or “nasty.” My guess is that a lot of you would say something. But you don’t answer why it’s apparently not okay to do it with this. Also, many cites have indicated that not washing _is_ spreading cooties, like SARS. Just because you are unaware of oblivious to what your friends might have gotten from you (like they never get colds or flu, never, right?), there’s no way of knowing who else out there (possibly with a compromised immune system) is getting something. But hey, who cares? As long as _you_ are okay . . . :rolleyes: **alice** , I’m perfectly fine at parties. I don’t have an eagle eye for people not washing and I can’t remember ever telling someone to wash their hands. I’m just saying (for the kajillionth time) I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying something to someone who is doing something blatantly ignorant that can affect us all. Well, I think that’s it for me here. It amazes me that some of you continually dodge the issue and give non-answers and rationalizations, but okay. Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/122 "2004-05-18T19:53:58Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > …I’m willing to take my chances, because I am certainly not going to give that up for irrational paranoia. **nyctea scandiaca,** It’s clear that, for whatever reason, you are choosing to miss the meaning of what people have been trying to explain to you, and that you’ve backed yourself into a defensive corner where all that’s left for you to do is to start citing specific examples that miss the point and to start calling names. People who know more than you about infectious disease are also likely to know more than you about psychological disorders. You screaming “obsessive compulsive disorder” and “paranoia” is pitiful and frankly, laughable. If you have expertise in the diagnosis of psychological disorders, please post your qualifications, and I will apologize. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/123 "2004-05-18T20:20:54Z")
Man, I hate these threads. Talk about a little fucking knowledge being a bad thing. I am a Microbiologist. I have been a Microbiologist since I graduated with my Microbiology degree. I am not a Biologist. I am not a little Biologist. I am a Microbiologist. I have worked with _Yeresenia pestis_(plasmid research), _E. coli O157: H7_ (Sr Project), _Schistosoma mansoni_ (not a bacterium, but cool all the same), r_E. coli_ (Protein production) I’ve tested water, food, human waste and environmental samples, and found such nasties as _Legionella_, _Mycobacterium_ spp, and _Salmonella_, and not once was I as obsessed with hand washing as are some of you. Also, I rarely get sick, probably about once every two or three years. I haven’t had antibiotic in about 10 years. I currently work in a hospital with Islet Cells. Hand washing should be done regularly. However, obsessive hand-washing is actually not healthy. There are transient bacterial populations of bacteria that are routinely found on our skin. These bacteria can be removed with simple soap and water. Residential bacterial are rarely virulent and reside in the deeper in the skin so they aren’t readily removed by washing. If you are obsessively washing, you may be removing the oils in your skin, thus allowing the skin to crack and providing a mode of transmission for oporturnistic pathogens. When you wash your hands (assuming you aren’t going into surgery) you are attempting to remove are the transient bacteria. These are often the pathogens who cause illness. However, most of these bacteria are not harmful to the normal healthy adult. And they just hang out there. But even the pathogens aren’t a guaranteed illness. Just because an organism can cause illness, doesn’t mean they will. I personally wash my hands at the following times: - Before I handle food - After I handle food - After using the bathroom - When they are dirty When I was working on the E. coli O157: H7 project in college, I asked my professor why stuff like that didn’t bother him, and he said “you either understand that the odds are not in favor of you getting any of these diseases as they they primarily effect the young, old, and immunocompromised…or it drives you fuckin’ crazy”. He was a wise man. _PINWORMS_ in terms of parasitic infections is relatively mild. Most cases are asymptomatic and it is easily treated. While Shigellosis is relative rare with an occurrence of roughly 11 in every 100,000 people in the US, with most of them occurring at border cities which implies improperly treated water, than improper hygiene. [http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:qDN-h8y4-B8J:www.epa.gov/owm/mab/mexican/usmexrpt/chapter2.pdf+shigellosis+incidences+north+america&hl=en](http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:qDN-h8y4-B8J:www.epa.gov/owm/mab/mexican/usmexrpt/chapter2.pdf+shigellosis+incidences+north+america&hl=en) If you _REALLY_ want to avoid getting sick here are some steps I suggest you take: - Do not become poor - Do not live in a third world country - Do not visit a third world country - Do not live in the tropics - Do not visit the tropics - Do not live in a war zone - Do not visit war zone - Do not drink the same water you use for sewage - Do not wash your food, dishes, body/hands in the same water you use for sewage - Do not have sex without a condom - Do not live with your livestock - Do not eat uncooked/undercooked food - Do not starve - Do not go bare-foot - Get regular good healthcare with modern facilities and the most recent drugs - Oh, and if you remember, wash your hands ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/124 "2004-05-18T20:51:41Z")
> [@light strand](#): > > I personally wash my hands at the following times: > > - Before I handle food > - After I handle food > - After using the bathroom > - When they are dirty If everybody else in the world washed their hands at these same times, there would have been _no reason_ for this thread! I really don’t see where some of you are getting the idea that any of us are calling for people to wash their hands 75 times a day. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/125 "2004-05-18T21:01:52Z")
**ruadh** You will note that I do not wash my hands after shaking hands, I do not wash my hands after touching a doorknob, I do not wash my hands after blowing my nose etc., etc… I realize you didn’t suggest that you did wash your hands after doing the above, but others have. If this woman is driving you so crazy then I also suggest you clean your hands with hand sanitizer after returning to you desk after using the facilities. Your problems should be solved. But I still think it’s weird. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/126 "2004-05-18T21:20:08Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > If everybody else in the world washed their hands at these same times, there would have been _no reason_ for this thread! Yes, if everyone in the world were exactly like you, you would have less to bitch about. The question here is whether commenting on other people’s personal habits is an appropriate or effective way to change those habits. The response indicates that someone who doesn’t wash her hands represents such a dire public health hazard that it’s appropriate to comment. Some of us disagree because (1) the health hazard is highly exaggerated and (2) it’s not your business. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/127 "2004-05-18T21:41:40Z")
> [@light strand](#): > > **ruadh** You will note that I do not wash my hands after shaking hands, I do not wash my hands after touching a doorknob, I do not wash my hands after blowing my nose etc., etc… I realize you didn’t suggest that you did wash your hands after doing the above, but others have. By my reckoning you have to go all the way back to the first page of this thread to find someone who does these things. **Yosemite** and I don’t, yet many of you are replying to us as if we do. **chula:** > [@](#): > > Some of us disagree because (1) the health hazard is highly exaggerated and (2) it’s not your business. The health hazard is _not_ exaggerated when the non-hand-washer is someone (a) who you are coming in frequent contact with and (b) who is in the contagious stage of an infectious illness. These are _ideal_ circumstances for an illness to spread, and it was under these circumstances that The Other Woman Down The Hall made the comment to Linda about not washing her hands. Would you quit portraying it as though we’re confronting random strangers who we’re never going near again? ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/128 "2004-05-18T22:03:29Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > The health hazard is _not_ exaggerated when the non-hand-washer is someone (a) who you are coming in frequent contact with and (b) who is in the contagious stage of an infectious illness. This point was already raised, but if your main worry is catching her cold, why are you worried about her washing her hands after she uses the toilet? It’s not her genital region that is infected with the cold. And it’s a bit unrealistic to wash your hands every time you sneeze or wipe your nose, even if it would happen in an ideal world. You never explained to us how you knew that this woman had a cold. As was pointed out, allergies can also cause you to sniff and sneeze. Actually, I think the best solution to this problem is for employers to provide more paid sickdays and encourage people to take them. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/129 "2004-05-18T22:05:01Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > By my reckoning you have to go all the way back to the first page of this thread to find someone who does these things. **Yosemite** and I don’t, yet many of you are replying to us as if we do. Wait a sec…so you wash your hands after peeing but not after blowing your nose? What is more dangerous, sterile pee or mucous from blowing your nose? (Cold/flu germs). That is what I thought we were talking about, how not washing your hands after the peeing causes the spread of disease. Which disease would that be? What infectous germs are in my pee again? HOWEVER, you say you and yosemite don’t wash after blowing your nose. Now THAT is _nasty_, because that is how you are going to spread common sickness germs. I have never known anyone to get sick from pee. > [@](#): > > The health hazard is _not_ exaggerated when the non-hand-washer is someone (a) who you are coming in frequent contact with and (b) who is in the contagious stage of an infectious illness. These are _ideal_ circumstances for an illness to spread, and it was under these circumstances that The Other Woman Down The Hall made the comment to Linda about not washing her hands. Would you quit portraying it as though we’re confronting random strangers who we’re never going near again? I agree that if you have an infectious disease, you should wash often. I do, and when people in my office have colds, I wash often too. Wouldn’t that be another reason to wash after blowing your nose? But you said you and yosemite don’t do that. It just seems like an oxymoron…you’re obsessive about washing after peeing (which I am not aware of any germs from pee, Cecil said it is sterile) but not obsessive when blowing your nose? Hmmmm. **yosemite** , we all get the point: you think it’s _nasty_ and _gross_ and you are very scared of _PINWORMS!_ :eek: That’s fine, I believe you. But I think you are way overreacting. I think you are being obsessive and paranoid. I think you should listen to \*\*light strand’s \*\* professor: > [@](#): > > “you either understand that the odds are not in favor of you getting any of these diseases as they they primarily effect the young, old, and immunocompromised…or it drives you fuckin’ crazy”. I think you are letting it make you a bit crazy… Also, I am dying to know, ruadh and yosemite, do you ever kiss someone? Have sex? Go camping or backpacking? By your accounts, these would be very dangerous propositions indeed… I’ve done all of the above and I am still alive and healthy. Guess I am pretty lucky, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/130 "2004-05-18T22:14:20Z")
> [@lainaf](#): > > People who know more than you about infectious disease are also likely to know more than you about psychological disorders. You screaming “obsessive compulsive disorder” and “paranoia” is pitiful and frankly, laughable. > > If you have expertise in the diagnosis of psychological disorders, please post your qualifications, and I will apologize. Hey, the way she talks, it sounds like she has OCD. I don’t have to be a psychiatrist to think that. Besides, just do a Google search on “obsessive compulsive” and hand washing. Fear of dirt or contamination and excessive hand washing are listed as common symptoms. Yosemite seems overly-concerned about being contaminated, IMHO. Her level of fear seems incongruous to the actual risk. Also cited as a symptom: “a feeling that something bad will happen if they do not act upon the obsessions (catch a disease, thus they wash their hands very frequently and ritualistically).” ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/131 "2004-05-18T22:24:57Z")
I had to pop in for this last post: > [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Hey, the way she talks, it sounds like she has OCD. I don’t have to be a psychiatrist to think that. Besides, just do a Google search on “obsessive compulsive” and hand washing. Fear of dirt or contamination and excessive hand washing are listed as common symptoms. Yosemite seems overly-concerned about being contaminated, IMHO. Her level of fear seems incongruous to the actual risk. Also cited as a symptom: “a feeling that something bad will happen if they do not act upon the obsessions (catch a disease, thus they wash their hands very frequently and ritualistically).” What a load of bullshit. You know Jack Shit. I state that I live in a house full of cats and dust bunnies. I worked at a job where I cleaned up shit and barf on a daily basis and I saw things that would make many of you shudder. And I handled it as well as everyone else who worked there without getting overly squeamish or freaking out. In fact, I’d bet that some of you’d be total pussies and wussies if you’d had to deal with some of the things I’ve dealt with. I don’t wash my hands after shaking hands and I don’t wash my hands as much as the list I cited (on page 2) dicates. I’ve never told someone to wash their hands (because I am not busy scrutinizing people in the bathroom). I’ve said _all_ these things, along with so much more, you gleefully choose to ignore. **lainaf** is right: you’ve painted yourself in a corner and you now hope that name-calling will cloud the issue. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/132 "2004-05-18T23:01:37Z")
by **yosemite** : > [@](#): > > No one ever answers whether or not they’d call a stranger on dumping trash or doing something else “disgusting” or “nasty.” My guess is that a lot of you would say something. If I may hazard a guess, **yosemite** , it’s because we can see trash with the naked eye. People complain about it not because it is _gross_ and _nasty_ (in a clinical, health-threatening sense), but because candy wrappers, wads of newspaper, and crushed soda cans are unpleasant to see in the middle of the street. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see the results of trash or its negative consequences. It doesn’t matter if its a soiled diaper or a used tire. The crime involved with not washing one’s hands, on the other hand, is not quite so macroscopic. Furthermore, it is pretty invasive of a stranger (or even an acquaintance) to demand an explanation for somebody not washing their hands when they are not privy to all the facts, and I think this was what **lezlers** and others have been saying. It’s pretty obvious when someone is littering. You clearly see evidence. It is not so obvious when someone is befouling the environment with dirty hands. Assumption often have to be made. A few times I’ve dashed into a stall to make adjustments to my clothing (e.g. straighten my nametag, tighten my bra strap) and I’ll be damned if I’m going to go through the hand washing ritual just to appease a few bacteriaphobes who pay _way_ too much attention to what other people are doing in the restroom. Granted, I still may wash my hands out of habit or because I think the door handle felt kind of slimy. But if I choose not to wash my hands, why should I _not_ feel rightfully insulted by somebody asking (in a demanding way) “Why aren’t you washing your hands?” Uh, maybe because I’m grown-ass woman who is capable of deciding when washing my hands is necessary and when it is not? Why are you even talking to me? Unless there’s toilet paper hanging off my shoe and you’re nicely pointing it out to me, get the hell out of my face. Wouldn’t it be rude to say to a perfect stranger who is smoking a cigarette outside, “Why don’t you quit smoking?” Afterall, they are polluting the environment in their small way and posing a risk to public health. They should be respecting your ideas of cleanliness and healthiness. How dare they don’t! A woman is taking her kids to a fast food joint for dinner. You don’t know her, she doesn’t know you. But you, as a concerned citizen looking out for the welfare of her children and the whole world, demand an explanation for the “unwholesome” decisions she is making concerning the diet of her offspring. Rude? Yeah, especially if you do it in front of the whole restaurant. Let’s make it personal, **yosemite**. You have a multiple cat household. It’s guaranteed those critters jump on the furniture, leave hairs all the place, dump dead skin cells on your clothes, and get this…\*\* they walk around in each other’s shit and piss and _never_ wash their paws with a FDA approved antimicrobial soap!\*\* Nevertheless, you’d probably be offended if someone started insinuating horrible things about you because you live in such filth (and understand when I say this that I live in the same kind of filth, since I too have a cat). And if a busybody started probing into your hygiene standards during Potluck Day at the office, you would be justified in taking offense. The point is, everyone has different standards and not everyone is grossed out by the same things or to the same degree as you. Nor should they. **light strand** echoes my scientific assessment on the whole hand washing deal. It serves it purpose, but it ain’t the end all be all. Realize that it mostly brings folks psychological comfort, but that is it. Most hand washers do not let the soap actually sit on the skin long enough to kill all the germs anyway (minimum contact time of antibacterials is most often between [10 and 15 seconds](http://www.summers1.freeserve.co.uk/hands_wash_programme.htm)) and if you are worried about catching pinworms from somebody, an average handwashing won’t do much to fight contamination because the worms are most often trapped under the fingernails. And how many people do you see scrubbing under their nails after every visit to the restroom? I’ve seen zero. Oh no! The horror!!! Be realistic. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/133 "2004-05-18T23:17:58Z")
I scrub under my fingernails when I wash my hands, especially if I’m washing them before I eat. I soap to the middle of my wrists often, (to the base of my palms at the least) and get in between my fingers, I’d say the non antibacterial soap (usually) I use is on my hands for 20 to 30 seconds. I consider it time well spent. You do make a good point though **you with the face** , not everyone does. Still, is it any less nice on the part of the “non handwashers” to NOT offer the “psychological comfort” of doing so? Isn’t it a somewhat “nasty” uncaring attitude in a way? I’m speaking of courtesy here, not so much whether it’s sanitary or not. (Unless you work in food service or the medical feild!) People have differing standards of cleanliness, and for some to jump on another, gang up, and bait them because they find something repellant IMHO is rather nasty. I’m just saying… ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/134 "2004-05-18T23:23:03Z")
Before any of you decide to “pile up” on me, consider this. I only spoke up advocating courtesy. My own fastidiousness isn’t “better” than that of someone who doesn’t wash their hands every time they visit the bathroom. I know this. I admit it freely. It’s my own personal way of cleaniliness, and I don’t say everyone HAS to do it. Though, maybe there would be less spread of sickness in \*\*some \*\* instances if they did. Still, you do things your way, I do things my way. Unless I see shit on your hands as you make my meal or some such, I’m not going to try to impose my way of doing things onto you. I might be tempted to speak up in extreme cases though. They’d have to be pretty extreme though. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/135 "2004-05-18T23:28:37Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > Wouldn’t it be rude to say to a perfect stranger who is smoking a cigarette outside, “Why don’t you quit smoking?” Afterall, they are polluting the environment in their small way and posing a risk to public health. They should be respecting your ideas of cleanliness and healthiness. How dare they don’t! By the way, people say that to me pretty often. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/136 "2004-05-18T23:48:40Z")
by **Zabawali** > [@](#): > > Still, is it any less nice on the part of the “non handwashers” to NOT offer the “psychological comfort” of doing so? Isn’t it a somewhat “nasty” uncaring attitude in a way? Well, if all I’m in the bathroom for is to adjust my slip so that it won’t show, I don’t think it is wrong of me to not appease someone else’s oversensitive psychology. I’m not doing anything wrong by not washing my hands, and other people really shouldn’t be paying attention to my activities in the restroom anyway (I believe that’s one of those unspoken rules in public restrooms: I tend to my business, you tend to yours.) But if there’s a good chance that my hands have become contaminated with hazardous waste during my visit to the toilet, then yes, it would be inconsiderate of me to not at least try to minimize the contamination on my skin. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/137 "2004-05-18T23:51:21Z")
Sorry that I botched up your name, **Zabali**. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/138 "2004-05-18T23:58:53Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > Nevertheless, you’d probably be offended if someone started insinuating horrible things about you because you live in such filth (and understand when I say this that I live in the same kind of filth, since I too have a cat). Such people would never be at my house, where the “filth” is, and therefore would never have to deal with it. > [@](#): > > And if a busybody started probing into your hygiene standards during Potluck Day at the office, you would be justified in taking offense. How does this equate to seeing someone not wash and saying something about it? In no way. If I’m at a potluck and I’m not a disgusting mass of filthy cat hair and I’m washing my hands, then what does it matter if I have cats at home? By the same token, if someone wants to practice poor hygiene at home but practices good hygiene (washing hands after going to the bathroom) while at work, then why would I ask them about how they are at home? I wouldn’t. And neither should the busybody ask me about my cats. I keep on repeating, it isn’t like I’ve got an eagle eye on the lookout for non-handwashers. If I’m not _looking_ for them then I sure as hell wouldn’t be asking them how they are at home and I wouldn’t expect them to ask me how I was at home. And some of the other examples you gave were definitely dramatic overreaching. > [@](#): > > The point is, everyone has different standards and not everyone is grossed out by the same things or to the same degree as you. Obviously. But we needn’t go over the cites again indicating how necessary it is to do _some_ washing (like after going to the loo) and the health reasons for doing so. I’ll keep repeating, if it’s not gross enough for you to say something, fine, but to others it is. And perhaps they’ve got more knowledge or experience to justifiably feel that way. Or do you expect that we all must universally agree one what is gross _enough_ to speak up about? > [@](#): > > Well, if all I’m in the bathroom for is to adjust my slip so that it won’t show, I don’t think it is wrong of me to not appease someone else’s oversensitive psychology. How about this, then: if someone hears a person _flushing the toilet_ and coming out without washing? Well, this is it. Back to Cafe Society for me. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/139 "2004-05-19T01:01:21Z")
> [@](#): > > **you with the face** : > > Nevertheless, you’d probably be offended if someone started insinuating horrible things about you because you live in such filth (and understand when I say this that I live in the same kind of filth, since I too have a cat). > > **yosemite** : > Such people would never be at my house, where the “filth” is, and therefore would never have to deal with it. If you are near them and touching (gasp!) the same things they have to touch, and they are aware that you come in close daily contact with animals who trounce around in their own excrement, then they _are_ dealing with the “filth”. Right now your clothes are probably harboring billions of pet dander molecules. Would you not be peeved by someone refusing to get close to you because of all of that “filth”? If you think about, their concerns are not unreasonable. Cats _do_ get pretty intimate with crap. They _do_ shed a lot. The particles they shed are very likely contaminated with cat crap, which has been known to carry toxoplasmosis and other unpleasantries. Furthermore, cats clean themselves with their _nasty_ mouths! And we let these things sleep in our beds?!? > [@](#): > > by **ywtf** > And if a busybody started probing into your hygiene standards during Potluck Day at the office, you would be justified in taking offense. > > **yosemite** : > How does this equate to seeing someone not wash and saying something about it? In no way. If I’m at a potluck and I’m not a disgusting mass of filthy cat hair and I’m washing my hands, then what does it matter if I have cats at home? If you are at least half-way chummy with your co-workers, they probably know you have cats. Someone who finds that utterly disgusting could feel justified in questioning the status of any side dish you contribute to a potluck (you know, an activity that involves bringing stuff from _home_?) and may challenge you to prove that “one of those filthy animals” didn’t contaminate it. Would this bother you? And it doesn’t matter that you aren’t a disgusting mass of filthy cat hair. Most people coming out a restroom stall aren’t dripping in piss and shit, either, but you don’t see a problem in challenging them on the spot. > [@](#): > > And some of the other examples you gave were definitely dramatic overreaching. The fact that **chula** vouches for at least one of those examples shows that that is not the case. So I’m assuming you agree with me that those are examples of rude behavior. > [@](#): > > But we needn’t go over the cites again indicating how necessary it is to do some washing (like after going to the loo) and the health reasons for doing so. I’ll keep repeating, if it’s not gross enough for you to say something, fine, but to others it is. And perhaps they’ve got more knowledge or experience to justifiably feel that way. But more likely, they are just caught up in how _icky_ and _gross_ and _totally grody_ it is, rather than focusing on reality. If you wash your hands like the average Joe does, then you are not contributing much to the War on Biological Terror. If you realize this, then you will also realize that the actions of a few less hygienically observant people have little impact on your physical well-being. Most people aren’t doing it right anyway, so what’s the point of having so much wrath towards those who do not? Perspective and risk assessment: Keys to good mental health. And before someone assumes unseemly things about me, please take note that I’m a regular hand-washer who also happens to be a veterinarian well-schooled in all things related to microbes and parasites. It’s a damn shame I even have to say that :rolleyes: . ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678/140 "2004-05-19T02:24:07Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > Would you not be peeved by someone refusing to get close to you because of all of that “filth”? What do you think they won’t want to do? Lick my clothing? I mean really. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, cats clean themselves with their _nasty_ mouths! And we let these things sleep in our beds?!? I have friends who feel this way and they don’t go over to my house. :shrug: I don’t want them where they won’t feel comfortable. By the way, where are the cites indicating that anyone who comes from a cat-owning home should wear sterilized clothing out in public in order to not infect other people with disease? Are these cites as common as the ones about washing hands? > [@](#): > > Someone who finds that utterly disgusting could feel justified in questioning the status of any side dish you contribute to a potluck (you know, an activity that involves bringing stuff from _home_?) and may challenge you to prove that “one of those filthy animals” didn’t contaminate it. Would this bother you? How does this relate to raising eyebrows and asking a person who walks out of a stall (which is making flushing noises) about washing their hands? Oh wait. It doesn’t. To be relevant, I’d have to be challenging people about how they wash up _at home_, and I’ve never suggested that. > [@](#): > > If you wash your hands like the average Joe does, then you are not contributing much to the War on Biological Terror. If you realize this, then you will also realize that the actions of a few less hygienically observant people have little impact on your physical well-being. Most people aren’t doing it right anyway, so what’s the point of having so much wrath towards those who do not? Perspective and risk assessment: Keys to good mental health. So what’s your point? No one should say anything about anything? What’s the point of all these educational signs and cites and notices about the importance of washing up? People aren’t going to do it right anyway, and besides, those who don’t do it at all aren’t really _hurting_ anybody else that much, are they? So what’s the big deal? Why is the government and all these health officials even bothering? It’s obviously not making any difference and it’s just upsetting people to be reminded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-the-woman-down-the-hall-whos-allergic-to-the-soap-in-the-ladies-room/244678.md?page=8)