To the woman down the hall who's "allergic" to the soap in the ladies' room...

[yosemite]

@nyctea scandiaca

I thought this thread was about hand-washing…where does smearing snot on a counter come in?

Because to some of us, not washing after going to the bathroom is not unlike smearing snot on a counter. They’re both nasty. Most people know better than to do either of them.

So, would you say something to someone if you saw them smearing snot on a counter? Yes or no? It’s really a simple question.

Besides, even if someone did do that, which, yes it would be gross, but would it be a Public Health Emergency?

Could we get some perspective here? I’m not talking about Public Health Emergency, I’m talking about something being gross and tacky. Is throwing cigarette butts on the ground a Public Health Emergency? I think not. But would you think me a hysterical shrew if I actually had the audacity to raise my eyebrows and say something to someone dumping out their ashtray on the sidewalk?

I think not. There was actually a thread here a while back about a study on how eating your snot was actually good for you, because the more germs you are exposed to, the more immunities you build up.

You want to do that? Fine. But do you want to eat someone else’s snot?

You can smear snot all over your own counters for all I care. But we’re not talking about that. We’re talking about doing it in a public area, where other people will invariably come into contact with it.

I just want to know, yosemite, what are you so afraid of? If you’re a poor housekeeper, why are you so obsessed with the cleanliness of your hands?

How exactly do you know how “obsessed” I am? I wash them several times a day, and always after going to the bathroom. I cannot believe that such a practice would be so foreign or appalling to most of you. Or do you mean to say that it’s somehow preferable to not wash your hands several times a day? I am not sure I follow you here.

If you live in a dirty house, no amount of hand washing is going to keep the germs off of you. The coliform bacteria is already all over you anyway, and as Cecil says, you can’t wash it all off. It’s on your body, in your body…

No, but some handwashing is better than no handwashing. Or did you not read the cites that I listed above? The evidence is overwhelming.

Are you really so disgusted by your private parts that you must religiously scrub up after you pee? I keep my privates very very clean, so my hand is not going to become germ infested if I tinkle.

Do I really have to provide more cites to indicate that it is not wise to not wash your hands after you go to the bathroom?

Or are you saying that you wouldn’t have any problem eating at an establishment where the employees figured that their private parts were “very very clean” so they didn’t need to wash up? Which is it—is washing after peeing necessary, or isn’t it?

Besides, as Cecil said, pee is sterile. And I am not actually touching myself during the act. And, I am still alive and healthy, so what gives? If “down there” is soooo ucky then I can’t imagine how you ever masturbate. You probably wear a hazmat suit and rubber gloves

Gee, getting a little personal, aren’t we? :rolleyes: All I am saying is that it is gross to not wash your hands after going to the bathroom. A multitude of cites bear this out.

So, I’m still curious—would you say something to someone who smeared snot on a counter? And, if you knew someone who had a household full of kids who were constantly coming down with PINWORMS and you saw that they had lax hygene and never washed up after going to the bathroom, how would you feel? Would you think anything? Say anything? Do anything differently? I’m really curious to learn how you’d react.

[yosemite]

While I’m at it, another cite:

Handwashing - why you should wash your hands
A number of infectious diseases can be spread from one person to another by contaminated hands, particularly gastro-intestinal infections and hepatitis A. Washing your hands properly can help prevent the spread of these organisms. Some forms of gastro-enteritis can cause serious complications, especially for young children, the elderly or those with a weakened immune system. Drying your hands properly is as important as washing them.

When to wash your hands

You should wash your hands thoroughly:
Before preparing food
Before eating
Between handling raw and cooked or ready-to-eat food
After going to the toilet or changing nappies
After smoking
After using a tissue or handkerchief
After handling rubbish or working in the garden
After handling animals
After attending to sick children or other family members.

I have to admit, at this point I am not quite this diligent about washing my hands. So if you think I’m some sort of anal-rententive freak because I think it’s necessary to wash after going to bathroom, then you must think all these health and government authorites are absolute whack jobs! Or, perhaps they know something you don’t . . .

And here are a few more cites:

http://www.gphealthsmart.com/teaching/gradesk-3.asp
http://www.gov.ns.ca/health/publichealth/content/hygiene.htm

[Unauthorized_Cinnamon]

Several people have mentioned that they don’t wash their hands terribly often, but they hardly ever get sick. The implication is that exposing oneself to germs actually reduces sickness, by building the immune system.

I wonder if the causation works the other way - people who have a naturally high resistance to germs don’t bother to wash their hands that much or worry about germs, whereas those of us who get sick more easily (e.g., me) have learned through hard experience to wash our hands, avoid touching our faces, and so forth.

And put me down as someone who’s not Monk-esque about germs, but (rightfully, I think) wary about the germs people carry on their hands. I will pick up a Cheerio off our kitchen floor and feed it to my kid, but I try to discourage her from chewing on the grocery cart handle and suchlike.

[lezlers]

@ruadh

No, you just apparently missed Rilchiam’s post wherein she discusses her food service job.

Nope, didn’t miss it. It’s what made me ask, actually.

You said that

@ruadh

In most cases I’d agree with you but I don’t think food service workers can be too careful. Personally I’d rather that everyone who handles my food have an attitude like hers.

So, what constitutes “most cases” then? In what cases is it not okay to appoint yourself Right-Thing-To-Do-Nazi? Because I thought you worked in an office. If that’s not “most cases” as opposed to food service, I really don’t know what is.

It appears as if you missed the point of my last post.

And yosemite, what’s with the snot obsession? Most people probably aren’t answering your question because it’s not comparable. Everyone seems to see that here but you. Let’s see here…tinkling and wiping through a thick wad (at least for me, I’m not a one-square girl) of paper and flushing a toilet vs. sticking your finger in your nose, digging out snot and smearing it on a counter.

Yosemite, you’re not a stupid woman. You don’t honestly expect people to fall into that oh-so-obvious trap you’ve set out, do you?

[Cat_Whisperer]

@AerynSun

Several people have mentioned that they don’t wash their hands terribly often, but they hardly ever get sick. The implication is that exposing oneself to germs actually reduces sickness, by building the immune system.

I wonder if the causation works the other way - people who have a naturally high resistance to germs don’t bother to wash their hands that much or worry about germs, whereas those of us who get sick more easily (e.g., me) have learned through hard experience to wash our hands, avoid touching our faces, and so forth.
<snip>

Actually, I have both a high resistance to germs and naturally clean skin (I worked in Microbiology, remember - I tested myself, and my skin is fairly germ-free), and I’m still one of the hand-washing Nazis in this thread. I was raised by a mother who knew in the 60’s the things that people seem to be just learning today - good hygiene was a way of life for us, and we almost never had infections of any kind.

What I’m not getting is why people are so resistant to the idea that human hands are a rich source of infectious agents. They just are, people - no amount of clouding the issue by talking about people being afraid to masturbate or being self-appointed Right-Thing-Doers will change that.

[yosemite]

@lezlers

And yosemite, what’s with the snot obsession?

I thought perhaps it would illustrate the concept of “gross” for most people. Is it gross? Why is it gross? Is the fact that it’s gross enough reason to say something to someone who is doing it? If not, why not? And if so, why?

Most will agree that snot is gross. And a lot (but obviously not all) think that wiping yourself and not washing afterwards is gross. And the cites that I keep on piling up here back that up.

See the connection?

Let’s see here…tinkling and wiping through a thick wad (at least for me, I’m not a one-square girl) of paper and flushing a toilet vs. sticking your finger in your nose, digging out snot and smearing it on a counter.

If that were the case, then why do so many cites not indicate that? How many freakin’ cites do I have to give here, anyway? Why don’t these cites say, “Instead of washing your hands after wiping your ass, use more toilet paper when you wipe your ass.” Why don’t they say that, if that’s all it takes?

Besides, how exactly are we supposed to know what kinds of habits you practice when you wipe? How is anyone to know? Why should we have to hope and assume that the person wiping themselves is using every sterile technique known to man, and therefore should be exempt from washing up afterwards?

Hey, how about this—why don’t we get the health laws changed so that as long as a food service worker uses a lot of toilet paper, they shouldn’t have to wash up after they go to the bathroom. I mean, they say that they were really careful when they wiped . . .

[yosemite]

@featherlou

What I’m not getting is why people are so resistant to the idea that human hands are a rich source of infectious agents. They just are, people - no amount of clouding the issue by talking about people being afraid to masturbate or being self-appointed Right-Thing-Doers will change that.

I can’t figure this out either. The cites that indicate this are overwhelming. Why are people trying to ignore that fact? I don’t get it.

[Miller]

I like the way yosemite keeps typing PINWORMS. It’s kind of like the way Jack Chick writes JESUS. Except with more fervor.

[yosemite]

@Miller

I like the way yosemite keeps typing PINWORMS. It’s kind of like the way Jack Chick writes JESUS. Except with more fervor.

MWHAHAHAHA!

(evil cackle) My work here is done! I’ve shared the PINWORM gospel with all of you!!! Now you will fear the Invisible Gelatinous PINWORM Eggs wherever you go!

(And trust me—if you’d seen those nasty little buggers, all thready and wriggling in shit, you’d type it as PINWORMS too!) :eek:

[alice_in_wonderland]

I still want to know why PINWORMS are so gosh darn bad. Frankly, I’m not that interested in reading through 3 pages of mumbo jumbo to find out that the biggest thing that PINWORMS do is gross people out.

So - what is it? What major health threat, appart from being grossed out to death, do pinworms, uh, pardon me PINWORMS, present to the average Joe?

And while we’re at it - I’ve never actually seen someone pick their nose and wipe snot on the counter - obviously you hang out with a different crowd than I do yosemite.

[lezlers]

Oh for gods sake, Yosemite.

No one here is saying you shouldn’t wash your hands after using the restroom. Please, point out to me where ANYONE has said that. All people are saying is that they don’t feel it’s quite the life-threatening emergency you seem to think it is. They don’t think it’s big enough of a deal to accost strangers in public restrooms about it.

Get it?

It’s not that they’re afraid. There does not need to be a Hand Washers Revolution.

They just don’t think it’s a big enough deal to harass strangers about.

I’ll say it one more time, slow enough to hopefully penetrate your PINWORM!! obsessed state of self-induced panic.

No…one…thinks…you…SHOULDN’T…wash…your…hands…after…using…the…
restroom…no…one…thinks…people…don’t…carry…germs.

They just (say it with me now)

Don’t think it’s a big enough deal to grill strangers in public restrooms about.

Christ.

Are we even speaking the same language?

[yosemite]

I think this “not speaking the same language” thing is working both ways.

Here. Let me break it down here.

All I’m saying is that it’s gross and nasty not to wash your hands. Just like it’s gross and nasty to dump out an ashtray, or discard a dirty diaper on the ground, or smear snot. Tell me, is there anything that you consider worthy of confronting someone else about? Anything? Or is snot-smearing or diaper-dumping a good enough reason, while not washing your hands is not? What is it? I’d really like to know where the line is drawn here.

If you don’t think hand-washing is a “good enough” reason, well, that’s your decision. But some of the rest of us do think that it’s nasty and gross, right up there with many other nasty and gross things. And we have plenty of cites to back us up. That’s pretty much it.

I’m not freaking out and talking about wearing Hazmat suits, I’m just talking about it being nasty and gross enough to warrant raised eyebrows and an inquiry. That’s all.

And as far as people denying that washing your hands is necessary, well, what is all this stuff about explaining how “really really clean” one is down there, or how much toilet paper you use, or how urine is really sterile, and all that bullshit? Why did some of you even bring that up? What was the point, other than to try to minimize the idea that not washing is nasty?

alice, as far as the PINWORMS go, I already explained about them and gave several cites which should answer all your questions. Right on this page. If some of the rest of you aren’t concerned about the idea of getting them, that’s fine with me, but some of us would rather avoid the possibility as much as we can.

[Rilchiam]

@yosemite

All I’m saying is that it’s gross and nasty not to wash your hands.

Well, all I’m saying is that it should be safe to assume that people over the age of, say, ten, know that. Unless they’re under your direct supervision, or you saw them do something like stick their finger in their nose, give them the benefit of the doubt.

[yosemite]

@Rilchiam

Well, all I’m saying is that it should be safe to assume that people over the age of, say, ten, know that. Unless they’re under your direct supervision, or you saw them do something like stick their finger in their nose, give them the benefit of the doubt.

And I think I already said that I would in a previous post. For instance, I would not grill you about not washing your hands just because I wasn’t paying attention to you and missed you washing. I wouldn’t grill anyone if I didn’t see and didn’t know.

But if I saw you leave a toilet stall and head straight for the door without washing. That, to me, would indicate an extremely high probability that you didn’t wash your hands after going to the bathroom. And yeah, I’d ask you about it, especially if you were working in food service.

I’d also say something to someone who just dumped a dirty diaper on the ground, or dumped their ashtray on the ground. I’d do this, even if they were not under my direct supervision. Because to me, that’s gross enough to deserve a comment. If it’s not “gross enough” for someone else, that’s fine. But it’s gross enough for me, and apparently, for other people as well.

[Rilchiam]

@yosemite

And I think I already said that I would in a previous post. For instance, I would not grill you about not washing your hands just because I wasn’t paying attention to you and missed you washing. I wouldn’t grill anyone if I didn’t see and didn’t know.

But if I saw you leave a toilet stall and head straight for the door without washing. That, to me, would indicate an extremely high probability that you didn’t wash your hands after going to the bathroom. And yeah, I’d ask you about it, especially if you were working in food service.

All righty then!

[yosemite]

@Rilchiam

All righty then!

Okay!

And I love your sig! I feel so gratified that I’m getting the PINWORM word out!

[ruadh]

@lezlers

Nope, didn’t miss it. It’s what made me ask, actually.

Well, you obviously didn’t read it carefully enough because what she was talking about was a completely different thing to what I was talking about. Her co-worker wasn’t commenting to her because she hadn’t washed her hands - in fact, she had no idea whether she’d washed her hands. She was simply making the assumption “I didn’t see it, therefore it might not have happened and I must remind her about it.” In most cases, yes, I would agree that is out of order, but not in the food industry.

A very different thing from only reminding someone about handwashing when you’ve seen them not do it, IMHO.

[chula]

I count 43 times you’ve used the word “nasty,” yosemite. Don’t you think that’s a bit much, or do you think sounding like an obsessive psycho helps your case?

Since when do ashes from a cigarette constitute a health hazard?

A point I don’t think has been made yet: How do you know the woman didn’t use a hand sanitizer? I’ve heard it’s better to use a hand sanitizer than to wash your hands, since you pick up germs from the faucets, towel dispenser, etc.

Jesus, what a bunch of germaphobes and busybodies.

[yosemite]

@chula

I count 43 times you’ve used the word “nasty,” yosemite.

You counted? And you call me obsessive? :rolleyes:

Don’t you think that’s a bit much, or do you think sounding like an obsessive psycho helps your case?

Sometimes repetition gets the point across. Heaven knows that’s been a chore on this thread.

Since when do ashes from a cigarette constitute a health hazard?

Who says they were? But many heated threads have been created discussing how distasteful and nasty (there! 44! Happy now?) they are, so I thought perhaps some people could relate. Heaven knows, many people wouldn’t be reluctant to show their disgust with someone who dumped an ashtray on the ground. But somehow it’s beyond unreasonable to feel the same disgust about not washing your hands?

A point I don’t think has been made yet: How do you know the woman didn’t use a hand sanitizer? I’ve heard it’s better to use a hand sanitizer than to wash your hands, since you pick up germs from the faucets, towel dispenser, etc.

Well, how do we know she even urinated? (I mean, she could have just flushed the toilet and come out adjusting her skirt just because . . . ) How do we know she’s even from Planet Earth and has the same genetic makeup? How do we know anything?

Sheesh. Give me a break. You can do a jilliion “what ifs” but it doesn’t change the fact (and the cites back it up) that many people just don’t wash their hands and the odds are extremely high that when someone leaves a stall without washing, they simply didn’t wash.

Anyway, I’ll ask you—since perhaps someone washed their hands with wipes while still in the stall (that’s a big stretch) do you think that it should be acceptable to never question a food service worker who leaves without showing any evidence of washing their hands? Because they might have washed in the stall?

[lezlers]

@yosemite

All I’m saying is that it’s gross and nasty not to wash your hands. Just like it’s gross and nasty to dump out an ashtray, or discard a dirty diaper on the ground, or smear snot. Tell me, is there anything that you consider worthy of confronting someone else about? Anything? Or is snot-smearing or diaper-dumping a good enough reason, while not washing your hands is not? What is it? I’d really like to know where the line is drawn here.

I get that you think not washing your hands as nasty. Really. I swear. You’ve stated it, what, 46 times now? I think it’s nasty too, depending on the circumstances. My problem isn’t with you thinking it’s nasty. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. My point is that I think it’s a bit over-the-top to question strangers about their personal hygiene habits in public restrooms. That is my sole point. You seem to be reading more into it than that and I don’t know why.

If you don’t think hand-washing is a “good enough” reason, well, that’s your decision. But some of the rest of us do think that it’s nasty and gross, right up there with many other nasty and gross things. And we have plenty of cites to back us up. That’s pretty much it.

You and the sites. The sites don’t mean dick to me. You want to know why? Because I never once said people shouldn’t wash their hands after using the restrooms. I honestly don’t know how much clearer I can state my opinion. I don’t think hand washing is a “good enough” thing to question strangers about, no. That’s been my point. I know we agreed to disagree and so I don’t know why I keep responding. I think I’m more irritated with the way you’re arguing your position. Each time I say “yes, yosemite, people should wash after using the bathroom, I just don’t think it’s big enough of a deal to play hall monitor about” you respond with “the PINWORMS!!, oh sweet jesus the PINWORMS!!!” and “but look, I have SITES! look!! You should wash your hands! If you don’t it’s NASTY! I mean, look at all my glorious SITES!” Uh, okay. That’s all well and good, except for I’m not arguing that you shouldn’t wash your hands. I never was.

I’m not freaking out and talking about wearing Hazmat suits, I’m just talking about it being nasty and gross enough to warrant raised eyebrows and an inquiry. That’s all.

And I’m not talking about it not being nasty. I’m just saying it’s NOT gross enough to “warrant raised eyebrowns and an inquiry.” To me, that equates to harassing strangers in public restrooms about their hygiene habits. Not washing your hands isn’t at that level. Not flushing the toilet, maybe. Flinging feces, definately.

And as far as people denying that washing your hands is necessary, well, what is all this stuff about explaining how “really really clean” one is down there, or how much toilet paper you use, or how urine is really sterile, and all that bullshit? Why did some of you even bring that up? What was the point, other than to try to minimize the idea that not washing is nasty?

I believe people were trying to establish that it’s not nasty enough to warrant an “inquiry” from Jane Random in a public restroom. The way you’re carrying on, you’d think people are licking their hands and wiping them across your face or something. Good god, get a little perspective.