# To those who don't think criminals are different than you and I **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 7, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921 "2007-03-07T05:37:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/21 "2007-03-07T08:25:51Z")
Well, that’s the issue, **I Love Me** , a person who thinks logically and usually colors within the lines won’t understand the motives of a person who is a habitual criminal. You or I would be hard pressed to commit murder in the course of a crime, but some folks don’t feel that way. Case in point: New Orleans after Katrina. A few of the street gangs got out of hand and attacked the PD. My Hubby was quite confused and said “What do they think they are doing?”. It was obvious to me - the gangs had been kept at bay by the PD for so long, they took a chance to _own_ the street again. They did not think far enough ahead to realize that the National Guard would be there soon. They just wanted to own the street. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/22 "2007-03-07T09:08:58Z")
I have to wonder what the OP thinks of the folks who took part in the recent GD thread about what Hitler should have done differently to win WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/23 "2007-03-07T09:32:04Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] If you get that worked-up over something that benign, maybe you shouldn’t work in a prison. [/QUOTE] Reasonable assertion, but I think it needs validation by someone with first-hand knowledge of the personality traits of people who work in prisons. There used to be someone on the Dope who fit that bill. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/24 "2007-03-07T10:02:06Z")
Wrong thread ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/25 "2007-03-07T10:04:30Z")
sorry ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/26 "2007-03-07T10:14:16Z")
I guess my point wasn’t clear as everyone seems to have missed it. I’m sure many of you have said you’d like to kill somebody. Some of you may have been joking. Some of you may have been angry. But I’m guessing most of the people here have never actually murdered anybody. But people in prison have. I know that. I’ve worked with these people for many years. But I can still be surprised by a casual attitude towards killing. I guess I still expect that somebody who commits murder should be driven by some violent emotion like anger or fear or greed. But this guy (who I assume from his attitude was speaking from personal experience) wasn’t - to him killing somebody was just something you did as part of the job. It’s one of the items on the list; make sure you gas up the car, load your gun, drive by the store twice to check it out, go inside, round up the customers, tell the cashier to open the register, kill everybody in the building, take all the cash in the register, check for security cameras, smash the cameras, look out the window to make sure it’s clear, drive home. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/27 "2007-03-07T10:48:28Z")
[QUOTE=NinetyWt] I didn’t notice where **Nemo** was worked up. [/QUOTE] Oh, O.K. - I guess you’re right. I thought it was a big enough issue for him that he started a BBQ Pit thread about it, but I must be wrong. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/28 "2007-03-07T11:04:45Z")
[QUOTE=Klaatu] I don’t really give a shit about the plight of inmates in prisons. [/QUOTE] You should. Most of them get out, you know. I guess the safety of your children isn’t that important, though. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/29 "2007-03-07T11:35:31Z")
So, one guy is shocked by a seemingly gratuitous killing in a gangster movie, and another guy explains why such killing would not be unrealistic given the circumstances in the film. Based on this exchange alone, I’m unpersuaded that criminals are different from you and I. In fact, now I’m curious about what Second Inmate would have to say about the authenticity of other crime movies. And if First Inmate is that taken aback by an extra getting killed in a movie, then I hope he makes parole at the earliest opportunity, because he does not come across as a particularly great menace to society. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/30 "2007-03-07T11:39:23Z")
```auto Characteristic General Population Prisoners Suffers from 2 or more 5% Men 72% male prisoners mental disorders 2%Women 70% female prisoners Suffers from 3 or more 1% men 44% male prisoners mental disorders 0% women 62% female prisoners Neurotic Disorder 12% men 40%male prisoners 18% women 63% female prisoners Psychotic Disorder 0.5% men 7% male prisoners 0.6% women 14% female prisoners Personality Disorder 5.4% men 64% male prisoners 3.4% women 50% female prisoners Drug use in previous year 13% men 66% male prisoners 8% women 55% female prisoners ``` [http://www.socialexclusionunit.gov.uk/downloaddoc.asp?id=64](http://www.socialexclusionunit.gov.uk/downloaddoc.asp?id=64) This maybe explains a few things ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/31 "2007-03-07T13:07:53Z")
I’m not sure **Nemo** is qualified to expound on the mental characteristics of prisoners, not being close enough to the situation. To _really_ know if you understand prisoners, we need to know one thing: where does your spouse work? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/32 "2007-03-07T13:32:54Z")
[QUOTE=Klaatu] The movie comments aside, the fact that they are in prison is what makes them different from you and I. [/QUOTE] Prezactly. We all _say_ how the crime is supposed to be done and who deserves to be all shot up and stabbity-stabbed; we just don’t _do_ it. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/33 "2007-03-07T14:14:18Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] I’m not sure **Nemo** is qualified to expound on the mental characteristics of prisoners, not being close enough to the situation. To _really_ know if you understand prisoners, we need to know one thing: where does your spouse work? [/QUOTE] Oh, fuck off and give it a rest, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/34 "2007-03-07T14:45:45Z")
[QUOTE=I Love Me, Vol. I] I guess I am either too dumb, or not dumb enough to be a criminal. If I were shaking down a store owner for cash (or some similar crime) my intention would be to make sure that I did NOT kill anyone even if they COULD identify me. My reasoning is that if I simply extort a shop owner to give me cash, or I rob a guy on the street at gunpoint, etc., then the chance of me getting caught is slim (so long as I didn’t screw it all up) because with all the other crime going on, the police can’t devote that much manpower to trying to find me. However, if I KILL someone, the crime is much more serious and the police will try a lot harder to find me. And if I _am_ caught, the penalty for murder is much worse then the penalty for an armed mugging. [/QUOTE] Depends on how much you have at stake. **Nemo** described the characters in the film as “gangsters”, and since they were shaking down a store owner, I would assume they were OC. It’s not one murder that’s going to bring them down, and live witnesses would be much more of a threat to them than to a guy who holds up a store just to get his fix. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/35 "2007-03-07T15:02:04Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] To _really_ know if you understand prisoners, we need to know one thing: where does your spouse work? [/QUOTE] I’m going to have to agree with **ETF** …this was gratuitous and a bit baity. **Lissa** hasn’t even stuck her head in this thread yet and you’re taking shots at her. Give it a break. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/36 "2007-03-07T15:02:18Z")
The criminals you overheard are different from you and I. That does not mean that all criminals are like those, or that all criminals are different from you and I. Your sweeping generalization is dangerous. It’s a very short step from the title of this thread to “to those who don’t think criminals are less than human.” It’s pretty disturbing to hear a prison guard going down this road. You’ve taken the first step toward rationalizing all sorts of unfair treatment of those prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/37 "2007-03-07T15:41:40Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] I’m not sure **Nemo** is qualified to expound on the mental characteristics of prisoners, not being close enough to the situation. To _really_ know if you understand prisoners, we need to know one thing: where does your spouse work? [/QUOTE] Fuck off, dude. This is uncalled for. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/38 "2007-03-07T15:49:29Z")
I do believe that criminals are different than you and I. Well, I don’t know about you, but I know they’re different than I. But I can imagine watching, say, a monster movie, and calmly imagining how the monster might best go about destroying the city and eating the helpless people and escaping from the angry mob. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/39 "2007-03-07T16:39:34Z")
I could see myself having the same conversation with a friend when watching such a movie. It’s a discussion of why a character was motivated to do what they did. I’m a little surprised that they showed a movie like that to prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921/40 "2007-03-07T16:55:39Z")
The average criminal is certainly more damaged than the average non-criminal. The overall “evil” titers are higher among inmates than among non-inmates. But people are kidding themselves if they thing there is any consistent fundamental difference between those who have been incarcerated and those who have not been. QtM, who’s been in the belly of the belly of the beast in blighted inner cities, affluent suburbs, and maximum security prisons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-those-who-dont-think-criminals-are-different-than-you-and-i/394921.md?page=3)