# To What Extent Are USA Drug Users Culpable For Violence In Mexico? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833 "2010-10-29T23:11:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/41 "2010-11-02T03:06:08Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I’ll go out on a limb here and say that neither the users or the dealers/gangs are ultimately responsible for the violence. I think what’s happening in Mexico is really a crime and corruption problem whose root cause is poverty and iniquitous wages. Drug smuggling just happens to be the opportunity of the moment, just as immigrant smuggling is another, but without the drugs the violence would be manifested as part of some other illegal pursuit. > > Notice, though, I said ultimately. That doesn’t mean the murderer who pulls the trigger isn’t still proximately responsible for a victim’s death. I am Mexican. To me it doesn’t appear that you know anything about my country outside of what you read or see in the USA media. The problems we are going through at this time are a direct result of the so called “War on Drugs” being forced upon us. We have always had crime and corruption. We aren’t alone in that. But we haven’t seen this level of violence in decades and those were times of civil unrest. When the South American cartels were able to smuggle their product into your country through the Caribean we didn’t have 10% of the problems we are having now. Your government closed off the Caribean and made us the preferred route. Now we are flooded with illegal weapons purchased by the sale of illegal drugs. Our police are forced to either take graft or be killed. The cartels have better weaponry and better intelligence. What would you do if you were in their situation? Are you willing to risk your life in your own country to keep someone from getting high? I think I know the answer. The astronomical amount of money that illegal drugs generate is the root cause of the problem. Make recreational drugs cheap like alcohol and the violence will be reduced by 90% within a a few years. No other source of illegal income can even come close to matching drug money. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/42 "2010-11-02T06:06:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Seems to me the blood is on the hands of the crazy moralists who have prevented Americans from growing marijuana in the sanctity of their own back gardens for the past ninety years. > Without their blue laws, there’d be no need for traffic in illegal weed across the border. :rolleyes: Oh yeah, with debates on this it’s ALL about being moral/purtian about POT. Give me an effing break. Granted I DO think that pot needs to be legal. Just legalize it for crying out loud. It is relatively harmless. I mean booze and tobacco are legal, and they are just as harmful as pot. But drugs doesn’t just mean pot. It means shit like meth, coke all that lovely stuff, which is illegal for a REASON. (hint not morality) I really get the feeling that those of you who are advocating wholesale legalization have NEVER ever personally witnessed how fucked up people can get on hard drugs. Yes, legalizing it might bring the price down…BUT there’s still the fact that many addicts would basicly spend all their money/resouces on their drug of choice, and that many addicts don’t have the abilty to make good decisions. A libral drug policy assumes that drug addicts have the abilty to make good decisions about their life while they are using. They don’t. Heck many don’t even after they are nominally “sober” (witnessed that with someone who was “sober” post alky, coke and "script drugs…they weren’t using, but ALL they were doing was lying in bed whining that they were regrouping and too anxious to go out. Meanwhile, they didn’t have enough money to pay their electricity bill, but they had enough for cigerettes and regular giant size economy bags of potato chips! Hell, I’ve seen that happen with just pot and just alkyhol. There’s still severe health effects. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/43 "2010-11-02T06:18:08Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > But drugs doesn’t just mean pot. It means shit like meth, coke all that lovely stuff, which is illegal for a REASON. (hint not morality) This would’ve worked a lot better if you didn’t follow it with a paragraph full of moralizing. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/44 "2010-11-02T10:34:27Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > :rolleyes: Oh yeah, with debates on this it’s ALL about being moral/purtian about POT. Nah, the laws concerning other recreational drugs are screwed up by the moralizers too. It’s just that POT represents the _bulk_ of the illegal flow across the border. Deal with the pot prohibition, and you’ve dealt with maybe 90% of the problem. Once that’s taken care of, we can argue about the logical basis for creating a black market in other drugs\*, but Mexico really deserves a break from all the killing and corruption that US pot policy causes. * * * \*Which is what we do when we make them illegal, and there is still a demand for them. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/45 "2010-11-02T13:29:22Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > ``` > Hell, I've seen that happen with just pot and just alkyhol. There's still severe health effects. > > ``` I bet not quite as severe as someone with 8 bullets from an AK47 in his body. I helped clean up after that one last week. So people must continue to die in order to keep another person from voluntarily consuming a substance that may harm their health? I read on these boards where many Americans preach personal responsibilty and getting the government off their backs. Time to practice what they preach. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/46 "2010-11-02T13:31:50Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > I read on these boards where many Americans preach personal responsibilty and getting the government off their backs. Time to practice what they preach. You mean, personal responsibility _for other people_ and getting government off _their_ backs – not the backs of dirty drugs users and people who look different from me. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/47 "2010-11-02T13:53:22Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > :rolleyes: Oh yeah, with debates on this it’s ALL about being moral/purtian about POT. Give me an effing break. Granted I DO think that pot needs to be legal. Just legalize it for crying out loud. It is relatively harmless. I mean booze and tobacco are legal, and they are just as harmful as pot. > But drugs doesn’t just mean pot. It means shit like meth, coke all that lovely stuff, which is illegal for a REASON. (hint not morality) I really get the feeling that those of you who are advocating wholesale legalization have NEVER ever personally witnessed how fucked up people can get on hard drugs. Yes, legalizing it might bring the price down…BUT there’s still the fact that many addicts would basicly spend all their money/resouces on their drug of choice, and that many addicts don’t have the abilty to make good decisions. A libral drug policy assumes that drug addicts have the abilty to make good decisions about their life while they are using. They don’t. Heck many don’t even after they are nominally “sober” (witnessed that with someone who was “sober” post alky, coke and "script drugs…they weren’t using, but ALL they were doing was lying in bed whining that they were regrouping and too anxious to go out. Meanwhile, they didn’t have enough money to pay their electricity bill, but they had enough for cigerettes and regular giant size economy bags of potato chips! Hell, I’ve seen that happen with just pot and just alkyhol. There’s still severe health effects. Hey! Remember when it was none of your business what people choose to do with their time, money or lives? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/48 "2010-11-02T13:54:34Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > I am Mexican. To me it doesn’t appear that you know anything about my country outside of what you read or see in the USA media. The problems we are going through at this time are a direct result of the so called “War on Drugs” being forced upon us. We have always had crime and corruption. We aren’t alone in that. But we haven’t seen this level of violence in decades and those were times of civil unrest. When the South American cartels were able to smuggle their product into your country through the Caribean we didn’t have 10% of the problems we are having now. Your government closed off the Caribean and made us the preferred route. Now we are flooded with illegal weapons purchased by the sale of illegal drugs. Our police are forced to either take graft or be killed. The cartels have better weaponry and better intelligence. What would you do if you were in their situation? Are you willing to risk your life in your own country to keep someone from getting high? I think I know the answer. I’m sypathetic to your postion, but it has a fatal flaw - namely Canada. The US also shares a huge border with Canada and it also conscripts Canada to assisit in the war on drugs. Yet, Canada has not descended into a morass of narco-violence. The sad reality is that while, yes, the profit is a powerful incentive, the ultimate cause is Mexico’s longstanding problems re: corruption, poor governance, etc. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/49 "2010-11-02T13:54:46Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > But drugs doesn’t just mean pot. It means shit like meth, coke all that lovely stuff, which is illegal for a REASON. (hint not morality) I really get the feeling that those of you who are advocating wholesale legalization have NEVER ever personally witnessed how fucked up people can get on hard drugs. Yes, legalizing it might bring the price down…BUT there’s still the fact that many addicts would basicly spend all their money/resouces on their drug of choice, and that many addicts don’t have the abilty to make good decisions. A libral drug policy assumes that drug addicts have the abilty to make good decisions about their life while they are using. They don’t. I support decriminalizing all drugs, and I have seen people fucked up on all sorts of things. Believe it or not, some people don’t act completely nuts on crack or coke (or whatever). Either way, those people are doing what they are doing NOW, even though drugs are illegal. We spend billions trying to prevent drugs from reaching users with almost no success. What’s the point of a law that cannot be enforced with any success? Currently, we are just throwing money down a toilet. We should direct some of that to treatment and education rather than prohibition and incarceration. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/50 "2010-11-02T14:00:51Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > I’m sypathetic to your postion, but it has a fatal flaw - namely Canada. The US also shares a huge border with Canada and it also conscripts Canada to assisit in the war on drugs. Yet, Canada has not descended into a morass of narco-violence. The sad reality is that while, yes, the profit is a powerful incentive, the ultimate cause is Mexico’s longstanding problems re: corruption, poor governance, etc. Drugs come from the south for the most part. Especially cocaine and pot. Your argument is based on faulty logic. Put Canada on your southern border and México on the north and see if your argument is valid. BTW, when was the last time a terrorist attempted to enter the US from México? Then tell me the last time they arrived from Canada? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/51 "2010-11-02T16:07:31Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Drugs come from the south for the most part. Especially cocaine and pot. Your argument is based on faulty logic. Put Canada on your southern border and México on the north and see if your argument is valid. > > BTW, when was the last time a terrorist attempted to enter the US from México? Then tell me the last time they arrived from Canada? They enter through Canada legally. and its much safer for them. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833/52 "2010-11-02T16:24:59Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > :rolleyes: Oh yeah, with debates on this it’s ALL about being moral/purtian about POT. Give me an effing break. Granted I DO think that pot needs to be legal. Just legalize it for crying out loud. It is relatively harmless. I mean booze and tobacco are legal, and they are just as harmful as pot. > But drugs doesn’t just mean pot. It means shit like meth, coke all that lovely stuff, which is illegal for a REASON. (hint not morality) I really get the feeling that those of you who are advocating wholesale legalization have NEVER ever personally witnessed how fucked up people can get on hard drugs. Yes, legalizing it might bring the price down…BUT there’s still the fact that many addicts would basicly spend all their money/resouces on their drug of choice, and that many addicts don’t have the abilty to make good decisions. A libral drug policy assumes that drug addicts have the abilty to make good decisions about their life while they are using. They don’t. Heck many don’t even after they are nominally “sober” (witnessed that with someone who was “sober” post alky, coke and "script drugs…they weren’t using, but ALL they were doing was lying in bed whining that they were regrouping and too anxious to go out. Meanwhile, they didn’t have enough money to pay their electricity bill, but they had enough for cigerettes and regular giant size economy bags of potato chips! Hell, I’ve seen that happen with just pot and just alkyhol. There’s still severe health effects. pfff… hahahahahaha. We have NEVER ever seen anybody use hard drugs? I’d be willing to wager that some of the people on this board have, gasp, actually done hard drugs themselves. There’s one dashingly good looking young man who posts here that I know has. Your post, which makes interesting use of punctuation and capitalization by the way, points out the flaw in your own argument. You admit that you can’t stop people from making decisions you believe are bad. Some people are always going to piss away too much of their resources on things you think they shouldn’t. Your example was potato chips, but there are also video games, gambling, obsessive Star Trek fandom, etc. Look how many people, often children, seriously injure themselves playing sports. Should we ban sports? I’ve seen plenty of people ruin their lives pursuing some guy or girl who treats them like crap. Obviously we should outlaw love. Prohibition increases the harms inflicted on society from drugs. It doesn’t work, and we should get rid of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-are-usa-drug-users-culpable-for-violence-in-mexico/558833.md?page=2)