# To what extent can a group member's character be inferred from others'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677 "2014-02-06T18:08:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/61 "2014-02-07T15:50:51Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > This is 2014. And nothing about what I said has changed. White racism is no longer as big problem it once was, but it remains a problem and no other form has emerged to be a problem in any way comparable. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/62 "2014-02-07T16:56:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And nothing about what I said has changed. White racism is no longer as big problem it once was, but it remains a problem and no other form has emerged to be a problem in any way comparable. Plus we have the GOP trying to perpetuate it and use it to race-bait for more power. Nobody here’s saying racist Democrats don’t exist, but they exist in a small and/or powerless minority within a party that’s been pushing for racial equality for decades. The GOP puts their racists front and center. The two are not comparable in the least despite what some people have been trying to infer ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/63 "2014-02-07T17:47:48Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Nobody here’s saying racist Democrats don’t exist, but they exist in a small and/or powerless minority within a party that’s been pushing for racial equality for decades. The GOP puts their racists front and center. The two are not comparable in the least despite what some people have been trying to infer So all Republicans are racist? ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/64 "2014-02-07T17:55:33Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So all Republicans are racist? Can you point out one, SINGLE good republican like I asked? If not, “Willingly joins a group that acts racist and homophobic and passes racist and homophobic legislation and doesn’t actually do anything to change that” certainly counts as racist to me. You are the company you keep. Lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas. People can and are judged by those who they associate with. If you want to be good pals with a guy who has a giant swastika tattoo on his face, don’t be surprised and offended if I think you’re racist. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/65 "2014-02-07T18:08:43Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Can you point out one, SINGLE good republican like I asked? See, that’s just an incredibly ridiculous question. It’s ridiculous because, no, you can’t accuse anyone of being bad until they’ve proven to your satisfaction that they are good. Second, come on. Really? You actually think it’s possible that I couldn’t? > [@](#): > > You are the company you keep. Lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas. Please list every single group you’re a member of so we can scour its membership for bad people. What are you afraid of? Give us the list now. Be sure to include the name of the political party you recently supported. > [@](#): > > People can and are judged by those who they associate with. If you want to be good pals with a guy who has a giant swastika tattoo on his face, don’t be surprised and offended if I think you’re racist. But I’m not pals with that guy. Never even met him. If I did, I’d tell him to go to hell. He voted for a guy from the same mainstream political party that I voted for (hypothetically - I’m a Democrat), out of millions who did the same. That doesn’t make him my friend. It’s as stupid as saying that because some people who watch HBO are Nazis, they’re all Nazis. It’s nonsensical. If I had voted for the Nazi party, that would be different. But that would be true regardless of whether that guy with the swastika voted for it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/66 "2014-02-07T18:13:46Z")
So name a “good” Republican already. Bonus points if he or she hasn’t pandered to extremists and isn’t likely to be displaced in a primary by an extremist. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/67 "2014-02-07T18:18:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So name a “good” Republican already. Bonus points if he or she hasn’t pandered to extremists and isn’t likely to be displaced in a primary by an extremist. That’s such a stupid question that I’m not going to pander to it. It’s unfair, and it’s dumb. It’s like demanding proof that there are dogs out there with short tails. It doesn’t require proof. I’m a lifelong Democrat, but I don’t play these nonsense games. This crap is nothing but insulting and a distraction. It won’t convince anyone of anything. It may make you feel good about yourself, but that’s not worth much. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/68 "2014-02-07T18:19:55Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > It’s as stupid as saying that because some people who watch HBO are Nazis, they’re all Nazis. No, it isn’t, and not even you believe it. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/69 "2014-02-07T18:21:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, it isn’t, and not even you believe it. Yes, it is. Don’t you dare tell me what I believe. You’re already displaying your poor critical thinking skills. If you must resort to putting thoughts in my head, you’ll prove just how desperate you are. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/70 "2014-02-07T18:22:27Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Second, come on. Really? You actually think it’s possible that I couldn’t? I **absolutely** 100% believe it’s impossible for you to list one. Prove me wrong and I’ll apologize, go away, and not bring it up against. So go ahead - if you’re claiming you can _go and do it_. > [@](#): > > It’s as stupid as saying that because some people who watch HBO are Nazis, they’re all Nazis. It’s nonsensical. No, I’m saying that if you choose to **join** the political party that has supported racism, homophobia, sexism, anti-science, etc, etc, you are a bad person. If you **knowingly join** the political party that says LGBT people shouldn’t have equal rights, if you **knowingly join** the political party that says critical thinking is a bad thing, if you **knowingly join** the political party where the majority of presidential candidates claim evolution isn’t real - you are a bad person in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/71 "2014-02-07T18:24:19Z")
I would not mind much (OK, I would too) that the Republicans that are not racists would not do much against the racists in their group, but the problem for me is that many times the racists are \*\*elected \*\* by the majority of that group in many states. Them and their causes are not condemned in the open by the so called Republican leaders, what I see is just the typical: slaps in the wrist, their policies are condemned like “self deportation” but the guilty members are not criticized directly. And then? They are welcomed anyhow to come to the party convention and help set policy. > **[When Mr. Kobach Comes to Town: Nativist Laws and the Communities They Damage](https://www.splcenter.org/20110129/when-mr-kobach-comes-town-nativist-laws-and-communities-they-damage)** > > This report examines the impact of harsh anti-immigrant laws enacted in communities across the country. These laws, which have been promoted and defended by former law professor and newly elected Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, have burdened... When Mr. Kobach and other groups that have also racist members financed and pushed for the ICE lawsuit against the Dreamers the typical Republican leadership also did go for the slaps in the wrist, but no direct condemnation for that move; even when many experts told them that the lawsuit was not going to win, but the reason was clear to me, it was a move to blow a whistle that tells the racists that they have their attention in the Republican Party. [http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/06/13/nro-adds-struggling-anti-dreamer-lawsuit-to-its/194455](http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/06/13/nro-adds-struggling-anti-dreamer-lawsuit-to-its/194455) And indeed the lawsuit was eventually dismissed, but blowing the whistle was more important. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/72 "2014-02-07T18:27:02Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > I **absolutely** 100% believe it’s impossible for you to list one. Prove me wrong and I’ll apologize, go away, and not bring it up against. > > So go ahead - if you’re claiming you can _go and do it_. To be clear, you don’t want a prominent Republican who espouses those views, you want one that tells other Republicans to knock it off with the creationism & etc already? > [@Karrius](#): > > No, I’m saying that if you choose to **join** the political party that has supported racism, homophobia, sexism, anti-science, etc, etc, you are a bad person. If you **knowingly join** the political party that says LGBT people shouldn’t have equal rights, if you **knowingly join** the political party that says critical thinking is a bad thing, if you **knowingly join** the political party where the majority of presidential candidates claim evolution isn’t real - you are a bad person in my mind. Denying evolution makes you a bad person? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/73 "2014-02-07T18:31:02Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > I **absolutely** 100% believe it’s impossible for you to list one. Prove me wrong and I’ll apologize, go away, and not bring it up against. > > So go ahead - if you’re claiming you can _go and do it_. Well, lets not go too far to the other end, IMHO, and regarding racism John McCain is one. I do think seriously that one factor on why he lost was that he dared to tell a deluded birther that she was wrong about Barack Obama. And then we just saw McCain officially censured by the Republican Party of Arizona for, among other things, being so in favor of immigration reform. > [@Karrius](#): > > No, I’m saying that if you choose to **join** the political party that has supported racism, homophobia, sexism, anti-science, etc, etc, you are a bad person. If you **knowingly join** the political party that says LGBT people shouldn’t have equal rights, if you **knowingly join** the political party that says critical thinking is a bad thing, if you **knowingly join** the political party where the majority of presidential candidates claim evolution isn’t real - you are a bad person in my mind. And this also deserves a slap in the wrist 🙂 I do not think that many are bad persons, they are only ignorant about how their party has changed from the days of Reagan and the better Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/74 "2014-02-07T18:33:49Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > To be clear, you don’t want a prominent Republican who espouses those views, you want one that tells other Republicans to knock it off with the creationism & etc already? Yes. To be specific, someone who has called their party on that BS. NOT somebody who just goes “Who cares, I don’t, don’t hold it against me”, but somebody who says “Alright, STOP it.” > [@](#): > > Denying evolution makes you a bad person? 😕 I do not trust or like religious fanatics ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/75 "2014-02-07T18:52:46Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > I **absolutely** 100% believe it’s impossible for you to list one. Jesus, you’re that absurd? It’s like you don’t live in the real world. Again, I’m a strong, lifelong Democrat, and I have lots of disagreements with Republicans, but I have known many who are decent human beings. It’s like you never leave your house or something. Or you’re deliberately being loony. It’s a ridiculous question. > [@](#): > > Prove me wrong and I’ll apologize, go away, and not bring it up against. You should apologize for even asking it. > [@](#): > > So go ahead - if you’re claiming you can _go and do it_. You know, I just realized something - I > [@](#): > > No, I’m saying that if you choose to **join** the political party that has supported racism, homophobia, sexism, anti-science, etc, etc, you are a bad person. Careful - you’re describing Democrats too. 😉 > [@](#): > > If you **knowingly join** the political party that says LGBT people shouldn’t have equal rights, Hmm. Do the Log Cabin Republicans know they are bad people? And does the GOP say gays shouldn’t have equal rights? Is it official policy? > [@](#): > > if you **knowingly join** the political party that says critical thinking is a bad thing You’re not one to talk about critical thinking. > [@](#): > > if you **knowingly join** the political party where the majority of presidential candidates claim evolution isn’t real - you are a bad person in my mind. Quite a list. So how many of these things can the party keep before it’s not “bad”? Or must it be perfect on every single issue? Careful, your answer may be used against you. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/76 "2014-02-07T18:53:58Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Yes. To be specific, someone who has called their party on that BS. So if you “call your party” on the BS, does that make you no longer “bad?” Even if you continue to support that party? Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/77 "2014-02-07T18:55:28Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > I do not trust or like religious fanatics So anyone you don’t like or trust is a bad person. Got it. Do you hate everyone you have a disagreement with about everything? And everyone who associates with them? No wonder you actually believe it’s possible that every single Republican in the world could be “bad.” You’re really wrapped up tightly around yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/78 "2014-02-07T19:03:14Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Jesus, you’re that absurd? > > It’s like you don’t live in the real world. > > Again, I’m a strong, lifelong Democrat, and I have lots of disagreements with Republicans, but I have known many who are decent human beings. It’s like you never leave your house or something. Or you’re deliberately being loony. > > It’s a ridiculous question. > You should apologize for even asking it. Prove it or stop whining about it. You say it’s obvious - PROVE IT. Better yet - I’m going to claim I’m omniscient. I’m not going to back it up. I know you can’t prove that, _and_ secretly you enjoy stealing your neighbor’s dogs and making stew with them every night. I don’t need to prove this. I just need to state that it’s obvious, and whoever disagrees with me should _obviously_ apologize for doubting me. > [@](#): > > And does the GOP say gays shouldn’t have equal rights? Is it official policy? > [@](#): > > Congressional Republicans took the lead in enacting the Defense of Marriage Act, affirming the right of States and the federal government not to recognize same-sex relationships licensed in other jurisdictions. The current Administration’s open defiance of this constitutional principle–in its handling of immigration cases, in federal personnel benefits, in allowing a same-sex marriage at a military base, and in refusing to defend DOMA in the courts–makes a mockery of the President’s inaugural oath. We commend the United States House of Representatives and State Attorneys General who have defended these laws when they have been attacked in the courts. We reaffirm our support for a Constitutional amendment defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman. We applaud the citizens of the majority of States which have enshrined in their constitutions the traditional concept of marriage, and we support the campaigns underway in several other States to do so. > Source: 2012 Republican Party Platform , Aug 27, 2012 > [@](#): > > We affirm traditional military culture, and we affirm that homosexuality is incompatible with military service. > Source: 2004 Republican Party Platform, p. 18 , Sep 7, 2004 > [@](#): > > After more than two centuries of American jurisprudence, and millennia of human experience, a few judges and local authorities are presuming to change the most fundamental institution of civilization, the union of a man and a woman in marriage. Attempts to redefine marriage in a single state or city could have serious consequences throughout the country, and anything less than a Constitutional amendment, passed by the Congress and ratified by the states, is vulnerable to being overturned by activist judges. On a matter of such importance, the voice of the people must be heard. The Constitutional amendment process guarantees that the final decision will rest with the American people and their elected representatives. President Bush will also vigorously defend the Defense of Marriage Act, which was supported by both parties and passed by 85 votes in the Senate. This common sense law reaffirms the right of states not to recognize same-sex marriages licensed in other states. > Source: 2004 Republican Party Platform, p. 85 , Sep 1, 2004 > [@](#): > > We strongly support a Constitutional amendment that fully protects marriage, and we [oppose] forcing states to recognize other living arrangements as equivalent to marriage. The well-being of children is best accomplished [when] nurtured by their mother & father anchored by the bonds of marriage. We believe that legal recognition and the accompanying benefits afforded couples should be preserved for that unique and special union of one man and one woman which has historically been called marriage. > Source: 2004 Republican Party Platform, p. 85 , Sep 1, 2004 I have to cite what is well known and obvious, and yet you refuse to cite things at all. HMMMMMMM. And yes, people who flat-out claim that the majority of scientists and rational thinking people are liars are bad people. Sorry, but there is NO way you can be a creationist and a good person - the two are mutually exclusive. Either you trust facts and science, or you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/79 "2014-02-07T19:12:55Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Prove it or stop whining about it. You say it’s obvious - PROVE IT. I forgot to finish my thought in my last post. I realized that you have NEVER once proven to me that you don’t like to stomp puppies. I’m shocked. How could you be so cruel? Please, either come out and say that you don’t stomp puppies, or I’ll have to continue to find you a horrible, puppy-stomping bastard. > [@](#): > > Better yet - I’m going to claim I’m omniscient. I’m not going to back it up. I know you can’t prove that, _and_ secretly you enjoy stealing your neighbor’s dogs and making stew with them every night. Wow. So now you’re doing your own parody of yourself? And to think you chose cruelty to dogs as the parody just like me. Why is that? > [@](#): > > I don’t need to prove this. I just need to state that it’s obvious, and whoever disagrees with me should _obviously_ apologize for doubting me. You would make a GREAT Republican - they hate critical thinking too. > [@](#): > > And yes, people who flat-out claim that the majority of scientists and rational thinking people are liars are bad people. Sorry, but there is NO way you can be a creationist and a good person - the two are mutually exclusive. Either you trust facts and science, or you don’t. Ever see the film or stage play “The Caine Mutiny Court-martial?” You should. A defense attorney gets a ship’s captain to talk and talk until he says crazier and crazier things to demonstrate that the mutineers he is defending were right about him. Keep talking! ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/80 "2014-02-07T19:15:48Z")
lance, do you admit, as an **official policy** as stated in their **official party platform** republicans have came out against equal rights for gays or not? Do you think, then, that this makes homophobia an **official policy** of the republican party or not? In your eyes, can people be held responsible for the **official policies** of the groups they belong to, or not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677.md?page=5)