# To what extent is our man-made environment producing social pathology? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 20, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559 "2019-09-20T13:40:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/1 "2019-09-20T13:40:52Z")
Depression, anxiety, drug use, suicides, crime, nihilistic violence such as mass shootings- to what extent can these symptoms of social pathology be blamed on our man-made environment? Americans live in a nihilistic landscape of cartoon architecture, of looping superhighways and parking lot oceans, of strip malls and big-box stores, and an endless sprawl of tract neighborhoods full of plastic houses. The schools look like insecticide factories, public buildings such as libraries, post offices, and courthouse are indistinguishable from bottling plants. Our man-made made environment is entropy made visible. Entropy is the force in the visible universe that moves everything towards death and decay, and that’s what our built environment signifies- death, decay, dissolution. We consume anti depressants and other psychotropic drugs at the highest rate in the world. People continue dropping dead like flies from drug overdose. Suicides and mass shootings-are becoming increasingly common. The amount of despair bring generated by our man-made environment cannot be overstated. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/2 "2019-09-20T13:49:39Z")
It matters. It has been/is being studied; FWIW, researchers in this field refer to it as the “built environment.” > **[Built environment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Built_environment)** > > The term built environment refers to human-made conditions and is often used in architecture, landscape architecture, urban planning, public health, sociology, and anthropology, among others. These curated spaces provide the setting for human activity and were created to fulfill human desires and needs. The term can refer to a plethora of components including the traditionally associated buildings, cities, public infrastructure, transportation, open space, as well as more co The built environmen... > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Research has indicated that the way neighbourhoods are created can affect both the physical activity and mental health of the communities’ residents. Studies have shown that built environments that were expressly designed to improve physical activity are linked to higher rates of physical activity, which in turn, positively affects health. Neighbourhoods with more walkability had lower rates of obesity as well as increased physical activity among its residents. They also had lower rates of depression, higher social capital, and less alcohol abuse. I’m not aware of research into whether the aesthetics of the built environment have an effect on physical or mental health, but it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that they do. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/3 "2019-09-20T13:51:01Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > The schools look like insecticide factories, public buildings such as libraries, post offices, and courthouse are indistinguishable from bottling plants. I work in a manufacturing environment on a daily basis. I don’t see any resemblance to schools or government administrative buildings at all. Kind of odd to blame social ills on the urban sprawl environment. Plenty of the population is handling it just fine. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/4 "2019-09-20T14:02:25Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > Depression, anxiety, drug use, suicides, crime, nihilistic violence such as mass shootings- to what extent can these symptoms of social pathology be blamed on our man-made environment? > > Americans live in a nihilistic landscape of cartoon architecture, of looping superhighways and parking lot oceans, of strip malls and big-box stores, and an endless sprawl of tract neighborhoods full of plastic houses. > > The schools look like insecticide factories, public buildings such as libraries, post offices, and courthouse are indistinguishable from bottling plants. > > Our man-made made environment is entropy made visible. Entropy is the force in the visible universe that moves everything towards death and decay, and that’s what our built environment signifies- death, decay, dissolution. > > We consume anti depressants and other psychotropic drugs at the highest rate in the world. People continue dropping dead like flies from drug overdose. Suicides and mass shootings-are becoming increasingly common. The amount of despair bring generated by our man-made environment cannot be overstated. Give me reliable transportation and food source, a climate controlled environment with plumbing and lighting, all the things that protects me from the elements and predators that try to kill me. I’ll take it all over a cave and a fire existence, every single time. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/5 "2019-09-20T14:17:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Give me reliable transportation and food source, a climate controlled environment with plumbing and lighting, all the things that protects me from the elements and predators that try to kill me. I’ll take it all over a cave and a fire existence, every single time. Fair enough. But what if the choice is between a treeless concrete jungle that forces you to drive everywhere, and a walkable one with lots of greenspace, public gathering areas, and architecture that catches your eye and speaks to aesthetic sensibilities? [Jakarta, Indonesia is an interesting example.](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/24/jakarta-megamalls-air-conditioned-alternate-reality) there are few public spaces and greenspaces, i.e. parks and such. But they have shitloads of shopping malls. Want to hang out somewhere? You don’t go to a park, you go to a mall and bask in a completely artificial environment. When it comes to architecture, do you want to live in a world of bland utilitarian buildings, or architectural feats that inspire people to come and take pictures? Do you want [North Dakota’s Capitol building,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_State_Capitol#/media/File:2009-0521-ND-StateCapitol.jpg) or do you want [Wisconsin’s Capitol building?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_State_Capitol#/media/File:Wisconsin_State_Capitol_Building_during_Tulip_Festival.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/6 "2019-09-20T14:29:05Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Fair enough. But what if the choice is between a treeless concrete jungle that forces you to drive everywhere, and a walkable one with lots of greenspace, public gathering areas, and architecture that catches your eye and speaks to aesthetic sensibilities? > > [Jakarta, Indonesia is an interesting example.](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/24/jakarta-megamalls-air-conditioned-alternate-reality) there are few public spaces and greenspaces, i.e. parks and such. But they have shitloads of shopping malls. Want to hang out somewhere? You don’t go to a park, you go to a mall and bask in a completely artificial environment. > > When it comes to architecture, do you want to live in a world of bland utilitarian buildings, or architectural feats that inspire people to come and take pictures? Do you want [North Dakota’s Capitol building,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_State_Capitol#/media/File:2009-0521-ND-StateCapitol.jpg) or do you want [Wisconsin’s Capitol building?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_State_Capitol#/media/File:Wisconsin_State_Capitol_Building_during_Tulip_Festival.jpg) It’s really not an either/or scenario. We can have both. Modern conveniences, including highways and personal transportation allow me access to nature. I work in a major city. I live in the suburbs which allows me access to state parks, etc. I sail regularly on the Chesapeake because it’s accessible due to modern roads and infrastructure. As to the buildings you linked: I spent a year in Kansas City on business one week. It gave me a new appreciation for brutal style architecture. I like a variety of building architecture, tbh. I do HATE malls, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/7 "2019-09-20T14:32:35Z")
It’s why I like living in Portland. All the jokes aside, it’s generally a pleasant place, with a lot of Craftsman style houses, and decorative facades on public structures like schools and libraries. Old buildings with beautiful architecture have been preserved and serve as modern businesses. New multi-story construction often requires that the ground floor be “pedestrian friendly”, meaning that it contains businesses instead of a concrete face. Neighborhoods are mostly walkable, with parks and extensive tree canopies. That doesn’t mean we don’t have the problems described by the OP, of course, as they exist everywhere, but people here are generally pleasant and helpful to each other. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/8 "2019-09-20T14:35:02Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > The schools look like insecticide factories, public buildings such as libraries, post offices, and courthouse are indistinguishable from bottling plants. What’s wrong with libraries, post offices, and courthouses looking like bottling plants?😕 [Bottling plants, exterior views.](https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&client=firefox-b-1-d&biw=1280&bih=860&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNQCi9sHPSXvJePfFZsDu9oaJ8RW7w%3A1568989927122&sa=1&ei=5-KEXdr_Bs7I_QamuabwDA&q=bottling+plant+building+exterior+view&oq=bottling+plant+building+exterior+view&gs_l=img.3...17761.24588..24967...0.0..0.188.1862.22j1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0j0i30j0i5i30j0i8i30j0i24.h-ZQetNao_I&ved=0ahUKEwiaj4z6zt_kAhVOZN8KHaacCc4Q4dUDCAY&uact=5) They look pretty cool. And what do “insecticide factories” even look like? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/9 "2019-09-20T14:46:00Z")
Are you including the pervasiveness of cellphones and social media in our “built environment”? How about PR/advertising? ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/10 "2019-09-20T14:54:54Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Fair enough. But what if the choice is between a treeless concrete jungle that forces you to drive everywhere, and a walkable one with lots of greenspace, public gathering areas, and architecture that catches your eye and speaks to aesthetic sensibilities? > > [Jakarta, Indonesia is an interesting example.](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/24/jakarta-megamalls-air-conditioned-alternate-reality) there are few public spaces and greenspaces, i.e. parks and such. But they have shitloads of shopping malls. Want to hang out somewhere? You don’t go to a park, you go to a mall and bask in a completely artificial environment. > > When it comes to architecture, do you want to live in a world of bland utilitarian buildings, or architectural feats that inspire people to come and take pictures? Do you want [North Dakota’s Capitol building,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_State_Capitol#/media/File:2009-0521-ND-StateCapitol.jpg) or do you want [Wisconsin’s Capitol building?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_State_Capitol#/media/File:Wisconsin_State_Capitol_Building_during_Tulip_Festival.jpg) Well said. The solution to this problem is building environments that are 1). Worthy of our affection, and 2). Human scaled, both physically and psychologically. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/11 "2019-09-20T15:02:55Z")
Much of the recent increase in suicide and drug overdose deaths has occurred in rural areas, far from looping superhighways and oceanic parking lots. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/12 "2019-09-20T15:05:21Z")
So not a fan of… “Brutalist architecture, or Brutalism, is an architectural style which emerged in the mid-20th century and gained popularity in the late 1950s and 1960s. It descended from the modernist architectural movement of the late 19th century and of the first half of 20th century.[1][2][3] It is characterized by simple, block-like structures that often feature bare building materials. Exposed concrete is favored in construction, however some examples are primarily made of brick.” The environment definitely affects psychology, probably why there’s so many studies about wall colors.in psych wards. At the soul sucking end you have offices like the one in Joe vs the Volcano. But there are ways to mindfully improve the atmosphere too, even in small easy ways you can do. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/13 "2019-09-20T15:30:08Z")
People have always been nuts. We’re just labeling it more. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/14 "2019-09-20T16:55:21Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Fair enough. But what if the choice is between a treeless concrete jungle that forces you to drive everywhere, and a walkable one with lots of greenspace, public gathering areas, and architecture that catches your eye and speaks to aesthetic sensibilities? > > [Jakarta, Indonesia is an interesting example.](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/24/jakarta-megamalls-air-conditioned-alternate-reality) there are few public spaces and greenspaces, i.e. parks and such. But they have shitloads of shopping malls. Want to hang out somewhere? You don’t go to a park, you go to a mall and bask in a completely artificial environment. > > When it comes to architecture, do you want to live in a world of bland utilitarian buildings, or architectural feats that inspire people to come and take pictures? Do you want [North Dakota’s Capitol building,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_State_Capitol#/media/File:2009-0521-ND-StateCapitol.jpg) or do you want [Wisconsin’s Capitol building?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_State_Capitol#/media/File:Wisconsin_State_Capitol_Building_during_Tulip_Festival.jpg) Indonesia will get a do-over as it plans to move its capitol to Borneo. It will be interesting to see if they have learned anything from the mess that is Jakarta. > **[Jakarta Is Crowded And Sinking, So Indonesia Is Moving Its Capital To Borneo](https://www.npr.org/2019/08/26/754291131/indonesia-plans-to-move-capital-to-borneo-from-jakarta)** > > The search criteria included being "relatively free from earthquakes and volcanoes." Officials also want to avoid Jakarta's massive traffic jams. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/15 "2019-09-20T17:15:22Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Indonesia will get a do-over as it plans to move its capitol to Borneo. It will be interesting to see if they have learned anything from the mess that is Jakarta. Even more interesting will be what Italy has to say about it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pmwgreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pmwgreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pmwgreen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/16 "2019-09-20T17:34:55Z")
I’ll agree that stores that go in these days are pretty dull on the exterior, malls used to have a bit of style but not anymore, but why has nobody brought up the worst offerders of uglification, mega churches. Around here they are either complete dumps or converted factories. We have one that has a cross that looks like the “9/11” one. Two steel girders are embedded in the front of what looks otherwise like a high-cube warehouse. I’m not even going to go into the contents. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/17 "2019-09-20T17:56:55Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Fair enough. But what if the choice is between a treeless concrete jungle that forces you to drive everywhere, and a walkable one with lots of greenspace, public gathering areas, and architecture that catches your eye and speaks to aesthetic sensibilities? As someone from a more rural background, I find the description of “walkable with lots of greenspace” as a sort of oxymoron. If a place has lots of greenspace (like exurbs or rural communities), then everything is far apart and not walkable. “Walkable” means you took away all the greenspace around everyone’s house, you stacked the houses on top of each other to make large buildings and then you sprinkle in small community gardens. Small community gardens are not “lots of greenspace.” ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/18 "2019-09-20T19:49:27Z")
IANAPsy-anything, and don’t know how relevant this is, but Dr Stephen Ilardi of KU has some interesting observations on how our current environment has drastically outrun our ability to evolve to it. He claims we (humans) spent hundreds of thousands of years evolving to maximize wellbeing in a hunter/gatherer environment, and can’t change fast enough to “fit” well in our technological environment. His data and thoughts on the rapidly increasing rates of clinical depression is pretty frightening. I thought his [talk](https://youtu.be/drv3BP0Fdi8) on the subject was fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/19 "2019-09-21T07:37:52Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > If a place has lots of greenspace (like exurbs or rural communities), then everything is far apart and not walkable. Not really. I live in a mid-sized city (pop. 200 000), a 4 km distance from the city center. My backyard is connected to a kms-wide forest and my walks to the city center go past oat fields and pastures, alongside a river. Lots and lots of greenspace, and everything within walking distance, or biking distance for the walking-aversed. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559/20 "2019-09-21T08:45:28Z")
You claim that depression, anxiety, drug use, suicides, crime, and nihilistic violence such as mass shootings are caused by our modern environment. Before we attempt to show how these are caused by our modern environment, show us that they are any more common than they have ever been. I’m talking about statistics, not anecdotes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-is-our-man-made-environment-producing-social-pathology/840559.md?page=2)