# To what extent should homeschoolers be regulated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677 "2010-02-04T15:47:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/61 "2010-02-04T20:36:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > 14th Amendment. If the state is going to guarantee an education for some kids, it has to gurantee it for all of them. This is not an entitlement the parents have a right to block. It belongs to the kids, not to them. You realize of course this was strictly to overturn Dred Scott? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/62 "2010-02-04T20:37:00Z")
So? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/63 "2010-02-04T20:37:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So? The guarantee is so black kids could go to the school to. It doesn’t interpret that ALL kids shall go to school. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/64 "2010-02-04T20:38:46Z")
Yes it does. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/65 "2010-02-04T20:46:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yes, but it is hard to believe that any parent would have what it takes to effectively teach in _all_ subjects necessary to graduate. It is not enough to just keep ahead of the student a couple of months in the workbook-real teachers have to have an advanced understanding of the subject as a whole. Teachers in public schools specialize(and go through extensive training) in specific areas of knowledge for this reason. Umm, no, teachers in public schools do no such thing. [Not even close](http://www.villagevoice.com/1999-04-20/news/rescuing-kids-from-bad-schools/). Where does this naive, public-schools-can-do-no-wrong attitude come from. Are people not aware of [basic facts](http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_26.htm) about [how badly](http://www.examiner.com/a-850056~72_D_C__schools_fail_federal_education_standards.html) American’s public schools [are failing](http://www.heartland.org/publications/school%20reform/article/66/State_Takes_Over_Philadelphias_Failing_Schools.html)? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The right to an education (under the right of equal protection) belongs to the child. It is the obligation of the parents to prove to the state that the child’s rights are being met. There is no right whatsoever for parents to withhold a proper education from their children. The links above show that millions of children in America are not getting a proper education from their public schools. Would you agree that according to your own reasoning, these children’s rights are being violated? Would you agree that the tens of thousands of public schools that are failing by the government’s own standards should be closed down, and the children given access to voucher programs that have a proven record of high achievement for poor children? Or does the “right” that you just dreamed up exist only to forcibly remove kids from their parents, and not apply once kids are shoved into lousy, unsafe public schools? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/66 "2010-02-04T20:49:28Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Nope. I posit that the only thing you need to have in order to teach is the want to do so. Public teachers don’t have nearly the want that parents do. That makes no sense at all. Just _wanting_ to teach a subject doesn’t qualify you to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/67 "2010-02-04T20:50:09Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > A homeschooling parent, on the other hand, doesn’t have the option of just sending the kid off to school and not giving a rat’s ass about what happens while the kid is there. A parent sending their kid to public (or private, for that matter) school does have that option. which is why i wouldn’t say that all school-schooled kids, pretty much by definition, have parents who are very involved in their children’s education, either. how you choose to educate your child says nothing about the level of involvement you have in said education. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/68 "2010-02-04T20:54:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That makes no sense at all. Just _wanting_ to teach a subject doesn’t qualify you to do so. How does it not? I know if I had the want to teach my child chemistry that I’d have a basic (or get) knowledge in order to do so. Are you of the mind that the expert teachers don’t utilize the text books provided them by the state? Most parents I know (if they identity a subject out of their league) will get help. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/69 "2010-02-04T20:55:53Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > How does it not? I know if I had the want to teach my child chemistry that I’d have a basic (or get) knowledge in order to do so. You really think if you want to do something bad enough, the capacity will just materialize in your brain? Or maybe you can only, truly “want” to do something if you’re fully capable of doing it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/70 "2010-02-04T20:56:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > 14th Amendment. If the state is going to guarantee an education for some kids, it has to gurantee it for all of them. This is not an entitlement the parents have a right to block. It belongs to the kids, not to them. But a parent has the right to control the type and nature of the education. A parent can choose to send their child to private school, or to home school. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/71 "2010-02-04T20:56:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The burden of proof, IOW, remains with the state to show that home-schooled students are not learning as much as public schooled students. There seems to be a formidable lack of such proof - all the available data seem to show that home-schoolers do significantly better than the average. But as I noted in post #24 (where I linked to a detailed analysis of several studies of homeschoolers’ performance), _the available data are extremely unreliable because the participants in studies of homeschooling are self-selected_. Public school standardized test results are based on testing of **all** students; we can’t meaningfully compare those results with the performance of a small number of _self-selected_ homeschooled students. I agree with you that if the state wants to impose curricular or structural requirements on homeschooling practices, it should be up to the state to show that such requirements are needed because the homeschoolers are underperforming. However, in order to tell whether or not homeschoolers are underperforming, we need to obtain _reliable_ data about the performance of homeschoolers _as a whole_. So, how are we going to get that data? Either homeschooling proponents have to get together and figure out a way to produce statistically reliable tests of the performance of homeschooled students across the board, or the state has to step in and require mandatory assessment testing of all homeschooled students, the way it does for public school students. Absent either of those strategies, we can’t make any meaningful claims about whether homeschooling in general works well or not compared to other types of schooling, because we simply have no way to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/72 "2010-02-04T20:59:57Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > You really think if you want to do something bad enough, the capacity will just materialize in your brain? > > Or maybe you can only, truly “want” to do something if you’re fully capable of doing it. > > :rolleyes: Yes. If I want to learn something I can. Is that not the gist of the educational system? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/73 "2010-02-04T21:00:14Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Good. We agree there. Now, if it is an equally applicable law, not targeted at religion, that all children learn the fundamentals of evolution, where do we have a problem given _Smith_? We don’t. As long as the school is ALSO permitted to teach the Intelligent Design nonsense, or even the "God spake, and breathed life into clay,’ as literal fact. > [@](#): > > And that is where I think _Smith_ changed things. If the law applies to all, and is not specifically targeted at religion, and does not prevent a person educating their child after school time, then just as the state can mandate nobody may smoke marijuana, even for religious purposes, it may mandate all children must be taught this curriculum. And where does "And Tango Makes Three,’ fit? Here we have a teaching that directly contradicts (presumably) some religious truth, AND is not objectively verifiable like evolution is. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/74 "2010-02-04T21:01:50Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > How does it not? I know if I had the want to teach my child chemistry that I’d have a basic (or get) knowledge in order to do so. > > Are you of the mind that the expert teachers don’t utilize the text books provided them by the state? Are _you_ of the mind that going through the text books is all expert teachers do to prepare? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/75 "2010-02-04T21:03:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are _you_ of the mind that going through the text books is all expert teachers do to prepare? Who taught you health in school? Mine was a coach. What specialized training do you think he had to perform teaching abilities? My chemistry teacher was the same coach. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/76 "2010-02-04T21:03:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Absent either of those strategies, we can’t make any meaningful claims about whether homeschooling in general works well or not compared to other types of schooling, because we simply have no way to tell. Even if we had such data, you would reject it. You would argue that the homeschool students are themselves self-selected – not the homeschool students reported on, but the entire group of students that are homeschooled are tilted towards higher performance than the average schooled child. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/77 "2010-02-04T21:05:01Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Did anybody see this? Because you are all going on as if it is ‘known’ that homeschooled children do better. > > 2 x more likely to be known by social services > > 4 x more likely as young adults to be out of work That survey was done in Britain, and is irrelevant to the question of whether home-schooling works in the USA. There are vast differences between the two countries, starting with the fact that Britain has decent public schools while the United States does not. All of the studies done in the United States suggest that home-schooled children fare better in numerous categories. If anyone objects to those studies because of their sampling method or anything else, they’re free to offer better studies, but until then I’ll stick with the best sources we have. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/78 "2010-02-04T21:09:06Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Who taught you health in school? Mine was a coach. What specialized training do you think he had to perform teaching abilities? My chemistry teacher was the same coach. Some of us would like a better education for our children than that, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/79 "2010-02-04T21:10:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Some of us would like a better education for our children than that, I guess. Yes, and public school is no guarantee of that. Which is why my child attends private school. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/80 "2010-02-04T21:11:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Some of us would like a better education for our children than that, I guess. Which brings me back to my original point. If educating your child is the prominent thing, aren’t you going to do everything you can to ensure that it is done better than it was for you? If the want is there, you as a parent, can certainly do a better job teaching your children than the State could. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677.md?page=5)