# To what extent should homeschoolers be regulated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677 "2010-02-04T15:47:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/141 "2010-02-05T16:08:05Z")
**Finn** is right, and this is exactly what I’ve been saying. People need to stop looking to these flawed studies of homeschoolers’ test results as a source of reliable data. > [@Algher](#): > > Therefore - homeschooling is no worse than public schooling. As **Finn** noted, this conclusion isn’t justified by the study in question. Mind you, _ **that doesn’t necessarily mean that the conclusion isn’t true.** _ It may well turn out, if we can ever get reliable data on the subject, that homeschooling **on average** produces a **better** education than other forms of schooling. I certainly have no objection to that possibility, and as I said before, I’ve had some absolutely awesome homeschooled students in my classes who at the very least constitute anecdotal evidence in its favor. But all the good will and benefit of the doubt in the world is no substitute for actual data from statistically sound studies. And at present, we just don’t have that data. If homeschooling advocates want their claims for the superiority of homeschooling to be accepted, they are going to have to make the effort to get real accountability in assessment of homeschooled students’ performance. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/142 "2010-02-05T16:33:27Z")
I don’t have any kids yet, but am planning to have them and have always been interested in homeschooling. In my state there is a fair amount of regulation, and there is a lot of documentation and paperwork involved - the [PA Home Education Law](http://www.pahomeschoolers.com/act169.html). Which I am happy about - I fully support homeschooling as a right, but would like to see more regulation in every state. At the least: supervision by the local school district and review of documentation by parents, mandatory yearly testing, minimum hours of instruction, an outline for appropriate curriculum, portfolio review, and required tutoring by a certified person or even forced school enrollment when it’s obvious home education isn’t working for a child. I don’t think the education level of the parents should have anything to do with the regulation, but optional courses to become accredited to teach your own kids would be awesome. I am biased here because I am not formally educated. 😉 I have met lots of bright, happy, well-adjusted home schooled kids (mostly secular); some kids who had issues while in school that were the cause of their parents choosing to home school later in life, so obviously home schooling wasn’t a cause; and home schooled kids (mostly religious) who were socially disabled, ridiculously over-sheltered, or just plain neglected - raised by parents who were mostly batshit crazy. The last would probably have benefited from school attendance, but the benefit to the 1st and 2nd category of one-on-one teaching and high parental involvement is too great to make homeschooling not an option IMO. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/143 "2010-02-05T17:04:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If you allow homeschooling, yes.YesYesMandatory outside time/some sort of “socialisation for homeschooled kids” program where they get to meet other kids, the inspections & testing already mentioned, the children’s own wishes to be taken into account (i.e. inspector to determine that parents are not \*forcing \*homeschooling on their children if they’d rather go to school.) > > All this stems from my belief that children are \*\*not \*\*the property of their parents, that parents do not have any \*rights \*in regards to their children’s education as much as they have _responsibilities_. Society trumps parents, IMO (as long as it’s a society I agree with, of course 😉 ) If I were in charge, there’d be \*no \*homeschooling. They have a responsibilty to provide a good education, that’s for sure. I think my atheist sister with a Ph.D. in biology and her hsuband, a credentialed high school teacher, are certainly qualified to teach their daughter just as well as the public schools.. In their case, they thought the local school district wasn’t good enough in certain ways. Too conservative, for example. My niece gets plenty of time for socialization – there’s a whole community of homeschooled kids and they get togther frequently. She’s got a ton of friends – you’d never know from meeting her that she’s homeschooled. It’s true that when my sister first told us that she was going to homeschool my niece we were afraid about her socialization, but it’s been no problem at all. She’s very outgoing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/144 "2010-02-05T17:04:29Z")
I think I’m still seeing a double standard here. Imagine what would happen if the superintendent of your local public school district said, “We don’t think the education level of teachers should have anything to do with our hiring practices, but optional courses to become accredited to teach your children would be awesome.” ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/145 "2010-02-05T17:09:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [QUOTE=Kearsen] > The guarantee is so black kids could go to the school to. It doesn’t interpret that ALL kids shall go to school. Yes it does. [/QUOTE] Well, that’s a resounding rebuttal. Unfortunately, I don’t see it echoed in [the text of the 14th Amendment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text). ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/146 "2010-02-05T17:11:16Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > That’s b/c a lot of homeschoolers are the VERY sheltered Jesus types. The type of UBERconservative families where beating a kid with an instrument is thought of as OK, and where they are SO sheltered they can’t even say gee or listen to Christian Contemporary Music. In other words the type of families where a school like Bob Jones is too libral. You seem to be quite certain that this is what accounts for those statistics. Can you tell us what the source of your information is? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/147 "2010-02-05T17:13:28Z")
For all of you proposing standardized testing as the “fix all”: > **[Educational Games, Worksheets, and More for Kids](https://www.education.com/)** > > An Educational platform for parents and teachers of pre-k through 7th grade kids. Support your kids learning journey with games, worksheets and more that help children practice key skills. Download, print & watch your kids learn today! [http://www.oppapers.com/essays/Problemsstandardized-Testing/50185](http://www.oppapers.com/essays/Problemsstandardized-Testing/50185) There are many more out there for you to peruse. Keep in mind, when parents who determine their kids will do better in a home school or private school do so for a bunch of different reasons, “formal” education only being one of. Instilling values, pre-determining aptitude for various subjects, instilling a passion to learn instead of a passion for rote memorization etc… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/148 "2010-02-05T17:18:15Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > They have a responsibilty to provide a good education, that’s for sure. I think my atheist sister with a Ph.D. in biology and her hsuband, a credentialed high school teacher, are certainly qualified to teach their daughter just as well as the public schools.. In their case, they thought the local school district wasn’t good enough in certain ways. Too conservative, for example. > > My niece gets plenty of time for socialization – there’s a whole community of homeschooled kids and they get togther frequently. She’s got a ton of friends – you’d never know from meeting her that she’s homeschooled. It’s true that when my sister first told us that she was going to homeschool my niece we were afraid about her socialization, but it’s been no problem at all. She’s very outgoing. Sounds like a good approach. Would your sister object to having your niece write standardised tests or the odd inspection? (Doesn’t sound like she would.) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/149 "2010-02-05T17:18:38Z")
No one’s stopping parents from doing all that other shit, while letting those who actually know what they’re doing handle the education. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/150 "2010-02-05T17:25:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think I’m still seeing a double standard here. Imagine what would happen if the superintendent of your local public school district said, “We don’t think the education level of teachers should have anything to do with our hiring practices, but optional courses to become accredited to teach your children would be awesome.” I see a double standard as well. Public Schooling can regularly fail, yet there is no accountability at the teacher level. Homeschooling, where there is no evidence presented of failure - apparently needs a lot more regulation. Again though, I did agree that annual standardized testing to ensure that all students are hitting the minimum level of achievement is fine with me. Follow-through with those providing homeschool education AND public school education AND private school education is a great idea if their kids are not hitting the minimum standard. I posted a journal article with multiple cites of multiple studies regarding homeschooled kids. I am still not finding any great evidence of a problem here to correct. So - Until you can show me a problem, I see no need for additional governmental regulation that goes into the homes of people in America. There is no crisis in homeschooled kids in the US that anyone can show. Why on earth should we spend time on this non-issue? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/151 "2010-02-05T17:46:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No one’s stopping parents from doing all that other shit, while letting those who actually know what they’re doing handle the education. If this was a response to me, I disagree whole-heartedly. Just this year alone: My son comes home with a cardboard box designed to “recycle”: plastics, aluminum etc (While this may be an overall positive to the environment, I don’t feel the necessity to push this agenda in schools) Bookclubs, selling candy, selling popcorn, shirts etc… All designed to increase funding for the school. Really? If they want/need money my community and/or me alone would gladly donate X amount in order to help them. The issue we disagree on is who is ‘best qualified’ to teach my kids. The resounding answer is “I AM” Time is also a huge restraint. As **Bricker** alluded to: Public schools offer ONE option, private schools offer a myriad of others, as do home schools. In the overwhelming majority of cases, they are at the very least “equally qualified” to teach children. Parents are the only one’s who should have the right to determine which is chosen. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/152 "2010-02-05T17:50:51Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > For all of you proposing standardized testing as the “fix all”: > > [Education.com | #1 Educational Site for Pre-K to 8th Grade](http://www.education.com/reference/article/Ref_Test_Problems_Seven/) > > [http://www.oppapers.com/essays/Problemsstandardized-Testing/50185](http://www.oppapers.com/essays/Problemsstandardized-Testing/50185) > > There are many more out there for you to peruse. > > Keep in mind, when parents who determine their kids will do better in a home school or private school do so for a bunch of different reasons, “formal” education only being one of. Instilling values, pre-determining aptitude for various subjects, instilling a passion to learn instead of a passion for rote memorization etc… No one proposed standardized testing as a “fix all” Quote that statement if it exists. People are calling for testing as a way to gather data. Gather data does not equal fix all. Got it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/153 "2010-02-05T17:56:43Z")
Are there other countries where homeschooling is the norm and, if so, how do their students compare? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/154 "2010-02-05T18:47:40Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > No one proposed standardized testing as a “fix all” Quote that statement if it exists. > > People are calling for testing as a way to gather data. > > Gather data does not equal fix all. Got it? So what data needs to be gathered? To determine quality of education, yes? What if quality of education is lowered DUE to standardized testing? The data we have is sufficient to determine whether or not the State should meddle in this affair. The answer is a resounding NO. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/155 "2010-02-05T19:05:54Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > The issue we disagree on is who is ‘best qualified’ to teach my kids. The resounding answer is “I AM” What makes this the case? (Hint: “Because they’re \*my \*kids” is a non-answer) ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/156 "2010-02-05T19:10:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What makes this the case? (Hint: “Because they’re \*my \*kids” is a non-answer) While that isn’t necessarily the answer, it is the bedrock of the argument. _Because_ they are my kids, I care about them more than you do. Provide why the data we have is not sufficient? It wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that the data doesn’t support the argument to regulate them, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/157 "2010-02-05T19:22:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What makes this the case? (Hint: “Because they’re \*my \*kids” is a non-answer) Homeschooled Kid: Personalized instruction with 1:1 student teacher ratio. Materials geared for the student, not for the aggregate group. Material presented at exactly the student’s speed and ability to follow. No risk of student getting lost in the shuffle, falling asleep in the back of the room, social promotion, etc. No distractions due to need to offer institutional type of instruction in standard classroom. Parent cares about the student, whereas in the institutional model the teacher will not necessarily hold the same amount of care for a particular student. Downside: Unknown ability of parent / guardian to deliver material at the same level as some teachers of certain subjects. Parent might not be able to answer more in-depth questions that follow from the material. Can be countered through the use of specialized volunteer experts from the homeschooler network. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/158 "2010-02-05T20:24:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, but you’ve already acknowledged that your feelings are not precisely in line with federal law. So it’s not clear to me why you keep mentioning how you feel, unless it’s intended to persuade others that your feelings should trump established law. > > That a public school may require children to leanr opposing viewpoints is beyond cavil. That the government may REQUIRE that children get those opposing viewpoints is highly doubtful. The point I am trying to make is that post _Smith_, certain prior decisions no longer seem to be consistent, and, if reexamined in future cases, may be overturned. I think _Smith_, if read correctly, is an incredibly broad reaching decision. Therefore, while under prior precedent, banning private schools (including home schools) would probably have been ruled unconstitutional, I think **Smith** changes that. We aren’t going to find out though, because the likelihood of elective officials acting to require public education for all is so small as to be completely discountable, given that religion is the third rail of American politics. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/159 "2010-02-05T21:20:45Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > My son comes home with a cardboard box designed to “recycle”: plastics, aluminum etc (While this may be an overall positive to the environment, I don’t feel the necessity to push this agenda in schools) are you kidding? school and schooling isn’t merely a place to learn facts. schooling children also has a large part with teaching them about society and how to integrate into society. let me guess, you’re one of these that thinks that obama was brainwashing kids and planting the seeds of communism in their malleable little minds when he suggested that they stay in school back in september? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677/160 "2010-02-05T21:28:16Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Homeschooled Kid: > Personalized instruction with 1:1 student teacher ratio. part of the educational process is collaborative - there are significant benefits that accrue from discussing topics in an open classroom with other minds. > [@](#): > > Materials geared for the student, not for the aggregate group. unless your homeschooler is some sort of educational theory maven, i’m not really sure how “random parent” has any ability to gear scholastic materials to the particular student > [@](#): > > Material presented at exactly the student’s speed and ability to follow. ok, but the problem with this is that sometimes you need to up the speed and ability to follow. gentle prodding and testing of boundaries is a benefit. not that parent’s can’t do this, but to the degree that “that’s your pride and joy” in your classroom, you may have cognitive biases and fail to realize that they aren’t progressing rapidly enough (which is yet another reason why yearly testing would be warranted for homeschooled kids when you don’t need it in an institutionalized setting) > [@](#): > > No risk of student getting lost in the shuffle, falling asleep in the back of the room, social promotion, etc. Sure. but there’s also the risk that the parent won’t properly execute their responsibilities. i know that most homeschool proponents think they’re perfect and that they’ll give it 100% day in, day out, but that’s not exactly realistic. > [@](#): > > No distractions due to need to offer institutional type of instruction in standard classroom. not really quite sure what distractions this would be? like other kids getting out of line? sure, that may be a problem, and this may be a benefit > [@](#): > > Parent cares about the student, whereas in the institutional model the teacher will not necessarily hold the same amount of care for a particular student. ok, but how is this different than a parent caring about their school-schooled children and then doing whatever would be done by a teacher-parent who cares for their child? I don’t have a problem with homeschooling, at least the ideal form of the concept. but it can easily be seen to have significant drawbacks that you claim to be benefits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-should-homeschoolers-be-regulated/527677.md?page=9)