# Tobacco and Caffine **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2000, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490 "2000-08-15T20:51:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/1 "2000-08-15T20:51:58Z")
So this story was out today. > [@](#): > > * * * > > Soft drink industry blasts tiny study about caffeine in colas > > LINDSEY TANNER, AP Medical Writer   Monday, August 14, 2000 > Breaking News Sections > > * * * > > (08-14) 17:35 PDT CHICAGO (AP) – A tiny study suggesting that caffeine is added to colas not for flavor but to hook consumers prompted a giant response Monday from the soft drink industry, which called the results flawed and irresponsible. Caffeine ``is added for one reason, for flavor,’’ said Jeff Nedelman, a spokesman for the National Soft Drink Association. > > The study’s authors, from Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, said about 70 percent of soft drinks sold nationwide contain caffeine and likened the marketing of caffeinated colas to the tobacco industry’s early claims that the addictive stimulant nicotine was added to cigarettes for flavor. > > In their study of 25 adult cola drinkers, participants were given cola samples at six different settings and asked to distinguish between the caffeinated and non-caffeinated sodas based on taste alone. Just two said they could detect the taste of caffeine in amounts similar to those added to colas such as Pepsi and Coca-Cola Classic. > > The results appear in August’s Archives of Family Medicine, an American Medical Association publication. > > `I'd like to see the soft drink industry come out of denial about the role of caffeine in their products,'' said lead researcher Roland Griffiths. `They’re adding a mildly addictive, mood-altering drug, one which surely accounts for the fact that people drink far more sodas with caffeine than without.’’ > > Hogwash, countered the National Soft Drink Association, a trade group representing U.S. companies that make, market and distribute more than 95 percent of the soft drinks sold nationwide. > > ``Too few people were tested, too little science was used in the testing and too much opinion is contained in the conclusions,’’ the association said. > > Alan Leshner, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, which helped fund the study, agreed the study was too small to draw sweeping conclusions. > > ``I don’t agree with the conclusion that caffeine should be lumped with nicotine,’’ Leshner said. Now, for the purposes of debate we must make the asumption that they have indeed not added caffine for flavor. Can anyone justify suing the tobacco companies, and not the soft drink companies. Will they be forced to remove caffine from drinks? Will we have to resort to illegal imports of mexican coke? Personally I can’t see any way that people can not lump soft drink makers and tobacco companies together. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/2 "2000-08-15T21:04:33Z")
I believe the key to the tobacco company lawsuits are that the companies **willfully withheld information stating that tobacco is harmful.** Tobacco smoke is strongly correlative with certain health problems we all know about. Colas, I believe, are mostly harmless. Caffeine does have some health effects, but I don’t think the cola companies tried to suppress the information. I am now officially pissing in the wind. If I just completely fabricated any of the above information, please, be gentle. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/3 "2000-08-15T21:04:36Z")
Don’t drink pop and don’t smoke. Exercise your right as a consumer to not partake of either product. On long existing evidence about these goods, I really can’t see how one can take the position that they were unaware of the ills of either product. It’s not like the manufacturers claim that either product is good for you. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/4 "2000-08-15T21:15:12Z")
I took a blind taste test and was unable to distinguish caffiene free Pepsi from regular Pepsi. So I immediately went out and bought a bunch of the stuff. And hated it (the taste that is - caffiene has no effect on me.) As I drank more and more I hated it more and more. Finally I returned the rest. I don’t know what to make of this. Maybe it’s all psychological. Regarding the OP, I would agree that there is no inherent difference. (I think the tobacco lawsuits were all bogus too). But I think the amount of caffiene in soft drinks is not nearly as addictive as the nicotine in cigarettes. This might make some difference. ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/5 "2000-08-15T21:20:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by oldscratch \* > \*\* > > Personally I can’t see any way that people can not lump soft drink makers and tobacco companies together. \*\* Well, if studies show that cola causes a variety of cancers, heart disease, and sundry other minor ailments, and that the soft drink companies knew about it for years, and that they also conspired to convince the public that it wasn’t so, then maybe I could equate them with the tobacco companies. Until then, I think Pepsi is in the clear. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/6 "2000-08-15T21:49:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > Now, for the purposes of debate we must make the asumption that they have indeed not added caffine for flavor. Can anyone justify suing the tobacco companies, and not the soft drink companies. Will they be forced to remove caffine from drinks? Will we have to resort to illegal imports of mexican coke? > Personally I can’t see any way that people can not lump soft drink makers and tobacco companies together. \*\* The tobacco companies lied about the harmful effects of their product. Though personally I believe they only deserve a small portion of the responsibility but that’s another topic altogether. I wouldn’t put it past certain people to attempt to sue the soda companies. I think it’ll be because to much soda contributes to obesity. They’ll argue that caffiene makes people into addicts who need to get their fix. It contributes to obesity which results in higher insurance and medical bills. To the best of my knowledge soda companies list caffiene as an ingredient and have done so since it was legally required. Jolt Cola used to advertise that it had twice as much caffiene as the national brands. Marc On a personal note Coca-Cola Classic is my most favorite of all colas. Caffiene Free Coca-Cola is nasty tasting and I wouldn’t use it to wash my pig. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/7 "2000-08-15T22:27:18Z")
A month ago there was a report in the British medical media about caffiene being _good_ for you–a “sleep expert” was on radio proclaiming that most people got too much sleep, being awake was healthy, therefore caffiene was beneficial, etc. etc. If anyone else has heard of this, I’d like to hear it–personally, I find a lack of sleep drives me batty. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/8 "2000-08-15T22:54:55Z")
I made this same exact argument involving fast food restaurants. One of the things which kept people off my side (that they were just as bad as the tobacco companies) was that nothing in fast food is addictive per se. Caffeine _IS_ addictive. As such, if you think that the class action law suits against “big tobacco” are a nifty idea, let’s include a shot towards our friends at “big soft drink” as well, getting us all addicted to their unhealthy products! * * * Yer pal, Satan [sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Four months, six days, 20 hours, 54 minutes and 27 seconds. 5154 cigarettes not smoked, saving $644.35. Life saved: 2 weeks, 3 days, 21 hours, 30 minutes.[/sub] **_"Satan is not an unattractive person."_-Drain Bead** [sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/9 "2000-08-15T23:09:51Z")
Remember they are using a deceptive marketing practice. Adding an addictive substance simply to get people to buy more drinks. If twinkies started being stuffed with small ammounts of nicotine (not enough to be harmfull, just enough to keep people coming back) wouldn’t some people start to wonder? Reminds of of Tommaco ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/10 "2000-08-15T23:37:12Z")
Two points: 1.I am now, and have been for quite some time, addicted to caffeine. I tried to stop drinking Coke, coffee, etc etc, but I felt miserable, it didn’t work, and now I happily enjoy my small addiction. No, I don’t blame Coca Cola, or other soft drink companies. I knew it caffeine in it, and I knew better than to drink it. But I didn’t listen, and now I NEED my Coke, and my coffee, and I’m not the only one in America like this. 1. Caffeine DOES add to the flavor. There is a HUGE taste differance between caffeinated drinks and non-caffeinated drinks. Case in point, Coke. You can’t tell me that you don’t taste a difference between the two kinds. I mean, maybe I can because I probably consume enough Coke to keep the entire industry in the black alone, but I think the difference is pretty blatant. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/11 "2000-08-16T04:15:25Z")
Caffeine has been (or was, at one point) linked with such fun things as fibrocystic breast disease in women, and the Vivarin website at [http://www.vivarin.com](http://www.vivarin.com) admits to such side effects as nervousness, irritability, sleeplessness, and occasionally, rapid heartbeat. Caffeine, to point out the blatantly obvious, is a stimulant drug, and an addictive one, too. Most of us know what it’s like when we don’t get our first cup in. Caffeine is also added to such medications as Cafergot (a migraine drug), Anacin, and Excedrin. Are we going to forbid those drugs from containing caffeine? Are we going to require all coffee manufacturers to offer only decaf? Are chocolate products going to have to become caffeine-free? What about tea? My point (and I have one), is that caffeine is found in enough products that I don’t think isolating soda is gonna work. Nicotine, OTOH, is found in tobacco and smoking-cessation products. And, yes, I can tell the difference between caffeine-free Diet Pepsi and the regular Diet, just as I can tell the difference between regular coffee and decaf. Robin ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/12 "2000-08-16T15:21:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\* > 2. Caffeine DOES add to the flavor. There is a HUGE taste differance between caffeinated drinks and non-caffeinated drinks. Case in point, Coke. You can’t tell me that you don’t taste a difference between the two kinds. I mean, maybe I can because I probably consume enough Coke to keep the entire industry in the black alone, but I think the difference is pretty blatant. \*\* I too drink loads of soda. When I was in the hospital they wouldn’t let me have caffine. At first I could tell that the caffine free was crap. But, when I went back to caffinated soda I couldn’t tell the difference. Could it be your addiction to caffine is influencing your taste? A placebo effect as it were. Have you ever tried a blind test? If you haven’t you can’t really talk about there being a difference in taste. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/13 "2000-08-16T17:40:14Z")
A related article from [The Onion](http://www.theonion.com/onion3626/hersheys_pay_obese.html) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/14 "2000-08-16T17:44:15Z")
Caffeine is not THAT addictive. My doctor told me to give it up for various medical reasons (it’s certainly not good for you, and I have a dickey ticker) and all I suffered was headaches and slight grumpiness for a week. I’m sure giving up tobacco is a LOT worse. Besides (she says, sidling toward the door) no one gets asthma from second-hand coffee . . . ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/15 "2000-08-16T21:03:43Z")
Caffeine occurs naturally in the plant they use to make they syrup that becomes Coke and Pepsi, so it’s there already. How much they add ON TOP OF THAT, I dunno… can anyone find out? Mnt. Dew and its various competitors have caffeine added, I believe. None of the ingredients seem to be naturally occuring (all derived from a lab somewhere). Unfortunately, I don’t have a can handy to check out the list. What does bother me is the marketing campaign by Big Soda to introduce heavily caffeinate drinks to the younger generation. Surge, Kick, etc. seem to be targetted at young people to get them hooked on the stuff, thereby providing a lasting market for their product. I admit to a caffeine habit in college, about 2 cans of Dew a day. After many restless nights, headaches and running to the bathroom every 30 mins, I kicked the habit and enjoy only Kool-Aid these days. Okay, okay, call me a whimp! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/16 "2000-08-16T21:18:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by oldscratch \* > \*\*Remember they are using a deceptive marketing practice. Adding an addictive substance simply to get people to buy more drinks. \*\* How is this deceptive? Have they been telling people that they aren’t putting caffeine in their products? Have they been telling people that caffeine is addictive? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/17 "2000-08-16T21:24:51Z")
That should have been “Have they been telling people caffeine isn’t addictive?” ---
**Author:** ![yak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b3f665/32.png) [@yak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yak)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/18 "2000-08-16T21:33:49Z")
Caffeine _IS_ addictive. As such, if you think that the class action law suits against “big tobacco” are a nifty idea, let’s include a shot towards our friends at “big soft drink” as well, getting us all addicted to their unhealthy products! \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Uh, how can you compare the two? It’s been said, but let me reiterate for a second. Tobacco companies KNEW that their product killed people. In fact, it’s the ONLY legal product available in the U.S. that, when used as directed, will kill the end user. 5 mg of nicotine will kill a dog, for crissake. The companies KNEW it was lethal and addictive, and said it wasn’t! That is where the lawsuits come in. Had they just admitted that, “yes, this stuff will hook you and kill you,” then there’d be no grounds for a suit. It’s the situation now, and people still smoke. Caffeine does not permanently affect the body. It’s a quick high, and it totally clears your system. A consultant friend of mine told me that the farther south you go on the Mississippi river, the more caffeinated the water becomes, because cities can’t clear it out in their water filtration process. I’m not saying drinking massive amounts of caffeine and sugar is good for you – especially the sugar part. But there are plenty of soft drinks without caffeine for the consumers who don’t want it, and for the rest of us, it won’t kill us. It’ll just make us fat. =) ---
**Author:** ![Mauve\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@Mauve\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauve_Dog)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/19 "2000-08-16T22:17:47Z")
Were I to post a reply, it would be most similar to **msrobyn** ’s. However, since she said pretty much everything I would have said, I see no reason to make a post. Well, OK, maybe one reason: A few years ago, I was diagnosed with a really nasty bleeding ulcer (I wound up losing about 1/3 of my blood in one day). The doctor, of course, told me to lay off caffeine (my typical morning drink of choice is a Bucket O’ Cola, since I can’t stand the taste of either coffee or tea). So, in the interest of health I did. Cold turkey, as it were. I did not, however, lay off of soda completely; I switched to Sprite and 7-Up and such (not nearly as tasty as Coke, in my opinion). For an entire year, starting from that day, I drank nothing with caffeine in it. And I noticed no difference in my general health. So, after about a year, I decided I really missed the taste of Coke (the soft drink, not the drug), so I started drinking it again. And I noticed no difference in my general health. Caffeine, at least from my perspective, is not the least bit addictive; at least, not in the amounts commonly found in soft drinks. The amounts found in coffee may be sufficient (I know of many coffee junkies) to cause addiction, however. So, I say lay off the soft drink companies, man! Go after Folgers and MJB and Maxwell House! Shut down Starbuck’s! _They_ are the evil companies! Wait a minute…I wasn’t going to post a reply… ---
**Author:** ![BillyBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/34f0e0/32.png) [@BillyBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillyBoy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/20 "2000-08-16T22:31:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ptahlis \* > > \*\*I think Pepsi is in the clear. \*\* Hey, that reminds me… what ever happened to “Crystal Pepsi” anyways? I am a cola connoisseur (having almost certainly misspelled that last word, I’m obviously not an expert speller). Every cola has its own unique flavor, and each element of the cola plays a part. Caffeine, sugar, whatever else… any ingredient added or removed from the mix absolutely affects the cola’s overall bouquet. Much like a fine wine, but with a chance to win amazing prizes on the underside of each bottlecap. In a blind taste test, I was able to sample 4 colas, then recite the brands in order, just based on the taste. If someone has a job opening for one who posesses such a skill, please forward me the information immediately. Unless you stock the office fridge with generic brand cola. Then I’m afraid we’re gonna have to have words. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490.md?page=2)