# Tobacco and Caffine **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2000, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490 "2000-08-15T20:51:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/41 "2000-08-21T06:13:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Will we have to resort to illegal imports of mexican coke? (sniff)Fuck the Mexicans, man (sniff sniff) Venezuelan is the **shit**!!! (sorry) ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/42 "2000-08-21T10:54:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Either way, I don’t see the makers of Mountain Dew as any more deceptive than beer companies. Let’s face it, people don’t drink beer because it tastes good. Actually, I DO drink beer because I like the taste. But I don’t drink a lot of it. In fact, I’ve never been really drunk in my life. I have to say, too, that one of my favorite soft drinks added caffeine recently…and I don’t think that the flavor changed. However, I quit buying that soft drink. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/43 "2000-08-21T16:11:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mauve Dog \* > > \*\*Because it’s a stimulant. Because people like to be stimulated. Is it a coincidence that it’s in there? No, because that’s apparently what people want. People also want non-caffeinated soft drinks. And you can find and purchase either one. Can you buy cigarettes without nicotine? \*\* No, but it says right on the package that it is harmful and addictive. I don’t see Mountain Dew with labels on it. Also, the tobacco companies are under fire because they add more to get you hooked, which is the premise of this thread and not too far removed from reality IMHO. > [@](#): > > \*\*As for the addiction stuff, I don’t buy it. Certainly not for ‘soda levels,’ as I said earlier. But, as Satan also said earlier, my opinions count for nothing. \*\* Oh get off the cross! What I said was that statistically your _reaction to caffeine_, not your “opinion,” means little. And I was correct. I did not post to reply to your little rebuttal where you agreed with my assessment and then got into semantics with how I worded it. Now, as for your links, I found a few sources which disagree with yours. One of which used your own source text verbatum to show the opposite. To wit: > [@](#): > > “Some sensitive individuals may experience mild, temporary effects, > including headache, restlessness and irritability when their daily intake > is quickly and substantially altered. Medical experts have long agreed that > any discomfort caused by abruptly stopping consumption of caffeine can be > avoided by progressively decreasing intake over a few days.” > > This is admitted to by the coffee industry… The definition of dependency > or addiction includes any drug that requires a weaning off period to avoid > withdrawal symptoms. > > Here is more… > > "While the average user doesn’t mug anyone to get money for caffeine, there > are a great many people who if they stopped consuming caffeine abruptly, > would find themselves in a pretty sorry state. Depending upon their daily > consumption, they could suffer headaches, nausea, lethargy, > anxiety, and irritability. Some heavy users going “cold turkey” experience > tremors, delirium, tachycardia, or convulsions, so this is not the course > to take! Actually caffeine has the capacity to kill. Although it would take > the equivalent of 5,000 mg or 40 strong cups of coffee in a very short time > to put you down, 25 caffeine pills could easily send you to the after world. > > Yes, caffeine in large doses can be dangerous, but is ADDICTION the right > term for heavy caffeine consumption? There is some controversy, but > caffeine addiction is being considered more seriously. In substance abuse > lists caffeine is listed right along with heroin, cocaine, anabolic > steroids, and alcohol. I began looking at things differently when I learned > that infants can > be born with caffeine addiction, a life threatening situation. Both the > Canadian and United States governments advise pregnant women to restrict > caffeine use, right along with alcohol and nicotine. I wouldn’t be > surprised if sometime in the future that all three of these substances are > viewed as detrimental to optimal health. > > Perhaps, a few cups of coffee each day doesn’t make you a candidate for a > stay in a drug rehab. But individuals have to judge their situation for > themselves as some people are far more sensitive to certain substances than > others. It is felt by some that upwards to 30% of the population is > consuming 350 milligrams daily, a level they consider substance abuse. If > you experience deep cravings when you wake up or a change in mood when you > can’t get your “fix,” you are facing a form of physical dependence. If your > caffeine situation involves prescribed or self-prescribed medication, > consult a health practitioner who understands and treats caffeine addiction." > > The multi-billion dollar a year caffeine related industry doesn’t want you > knowing the truth but I really think its obvious. Anyone that has ever > consumed coffee or soda with caffeine in them as part of their daily ritual > and has tried to stop knows this is true, myself included… So I think you > owe someone an appology… This is from a post on a health message board at [http://lists.ravedata.com/pipermail/florida-raves/1999-April/002267.html](http://lists.ravedata.com/pipermail/florida-raves/1999-April/002267.html) by Andrew Rikarts of National Health Agency Associates, Inc. At [http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/qa\_answer/0,3189,1736,00.html](http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/qa_answer/0,3189,1736,00.html), Dr. Andrew Weil says that while caffeine addiction is not as strong as tobacco, it is an addictive substance for most people. At [http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/Impact/articles/caffeine/caffeine-old.html](http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/Impact/articles/caffeine/caffeine-old.html), it summarizes in the opening paragraph that “A recent study sponsored by the National Institute on Drug Abuse has confirmed what many people already believe–caffeine is addictive,” about a Johns Hopkins study. And I could post several zillion links (okay, that is an exageration, but there are a ton) from people wanting to know how to beat their addiction to the stimulant. So it seems that studies have differing opinions on the matter, and as I said, one of your quotes was actually used to support that it _IS_ addictive in a source. The one thing that is solidly answerable, however, is that one person claiming, “Well, I did this” does not have any significance outside of anecdotal conversation. If you wish to read into that that “your opinion does not matter,” that would be your problem. * * * Yer pal, Satan [sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Four months, one week, five days, 14 hours, 9 minutes and 31 seconds. 5383 cigarettes not smoked, saving $672.95. Life saved: 2 weeks, 4 days, 16 hours, 35 minutes.[/sub] **_"Satan is not an unattractive person."_-Drain Bead** [sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/44 "2000-08-21T17:10:44Z")
Satan wrote: > [@](#): > > At [http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/qa\_answer/0,3189,1736,00.html](http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/qa_answer/0,3189,1736,00.html), Dr. Andrew Weil says that while caffeine addiction is not as strong as tobacco, it is an addictive substance for most people. Not to diminish the arguments surrounding caffeine’s addictiveness, but isn’t this the same Dr. Andrew Weil who promotes the use of unproven herbal remedies? ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/45 "2000-08-21T17:16:11Z")
I was reading the label on Mountain Dew here the other day and did not see caffiene as an ingredient, perhaps our Canadian version is different? I have seen people benefit from kicking their caffiene habit noting that the person tends to have more energy and alertness after the period of withdrawl is over. My brother had a two pot a day habit and said he hasn’t felt better since he has quit. Another person I know was ordered by his doctor to quit consuming any cafienated products and the positive changes have been remarkable. For most people I don’t see caffiene as being a problem unless you are like my brother. Because caffiene acts as a diuretic one should make sure that they get sufficient anmounts of water to prevent dehydration. I don’t want to sound like I belong to the anti-caffiene lobby, I love my coffee so much they might have to send me to Maxwell House for rehabilitation. Here’s a lighter look at our addiction: [You know you’re drinking too much coffee when…](http://members.tripod.com/~Feynn/jokes2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mauve\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@Mauve\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauve_Dog)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/46 "2000-08-21T20:45:11Z")
**Satan** : First, may I suggest lightening up? I am on no cross. My comment about my ‘opinion’ was in jest. Sheesh! As for the quote you posted, it does nothing to invalidate what I said. I posted that particular link purposely to indicate the levels of caffeine required to form an ‘addiction’: > [@](#): > > **It is felt by some that upwards to 30% of the population is consuming 350 milligrams daily, a level they consider substance abuse.** This supports my earlier statement. There is, on average, about 30-40mg of caffeine in a 12-oz can of cola. That means, on average, you would have to consume _10 cans_ daily to be considered an addict! Compare this to but a few cups of coffee. And, according to one of _your_ sources, we see this: > [@](#): > > \*\*In the United States, over 80 percent of adults consume caffeine in some form. Coffee, tea, soda and chocolate are the most common sources. Each day, the average adult ingests approximately 280 milligrams of caffeine, the amount found in about two large cups of coffee. > > At this level of consumption, caffeine tends to have a positive effect. People who take in small amounts of caffeine say they feel more awake and alert. In higher doses, however, caffeine can produce negative effects, such as anxiety and nervousness. But according to the researchers, these negative effects are not a serious health threat. In fact, when compared to other addictive substances, such as alcohol or nicotine, caffeine is relatively benign. > > Dr. Griffiths points out that there is a distinction between physical dependence on a substance and actual addiction. While millions of Americans say they are addicted to caffeine, Dr. Griffiths says most of them are only physically dependent on the substance. In other words, they will suffer withdrawal symptoms, such as lethargy and headaches if they stop using it.\*\* The above is from this site: [http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/Impact/articles/caffeine/caffeine-old.html](http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/Impact/articles/caffeine/caffeine-old.html) As for this site: [http://lists.ravedata.com/pipermail/florida-raves/1999-April/002267.html](http://lists.ravedata.com/pipermail/florida-raves/1999-April/002267.html), perhaps you missed this at the bottom of the post: > [@](#): > > _ **Any opinions expressed herein are my own, unless otherwise noted.** _ That, and while Mr. Rikarts may well work for the National Health Agency Associates, he is an MIS manager, not a health professional. Therefore, I am inclined to take his post as just that: an opinion. (For the record, I saw this post when I was doing my research, and chose not to include it for these reasons.) Again, I restate my position that caffeine and nicotine are not comparable drugs. What applies to the tobacco companies does not apply to soda companies in this case. **Feynn** : in Canada, Mountain Dew has no caffeine. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490/47 "2000-08-21T21:39:33Z")
Feynn wrote: > [@](#): > > I was reading the label on Mountain Dew here the other day and did not see caffiene as an ingredient, perhaps our Canadian version is different? That is correct. The Mountain Dew sold in Canada has no caffeine added to it. The Mountain Dew sold in the United States has one of the highest levels of caffeine added to any soft drink. Higher than Coca-Cola, as a matter of fact. Only Jolt Cola is higher in caffeine. I do not know why Canadian Mountain Dew is decaffeinated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tobacco-and-caffine/29490.md?page=2)