# Toby Keith's a colossal turd and his proclivity for all things shitty knows no limits

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [May 22, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719 "2003-05-22T02:30:05Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/21 "2003-05-22T16:51:17Z")

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I am SO THERE. In Charlotte. In August. I loves me some TOBY!!! WOOOOOOOOOO!

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**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/22 "2003-05-22T16:56:57Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zette \*  
> \*\*I am SO THERE. In Charlotte. In August. I loves me some TOBY!!! WOOOOOOOOOO! \*\*

Jeez, Zette. And I thought you had better taste. 😛

Robin

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**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/23 "2003-05-22T17:34:32Z")

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SHOCK’N Y’ALL? Am I to understand that Toby wants to shock us all. How does he plan to do that? Is Marilyn Manson involved? The boys from South Park?

Frankly, I don’t see how Toby could possibly shock anyone. Perhaps he plans to use actual electricity?

> [@](#):
>
> So I guess I am the only one who thinks the name “Shock’n Y’all” is clever? How do people think of these things?

I’d guess that Mr. Kieth has hired the Hamburgler to randomly remove letters from the name of his tour.

Shocking! :eek:

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**Author:** ![scout1222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@scout1222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scout1222)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/24 "2003-05-22T17:37:37Z")

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I find some of his songs to be really entertaining.

But the term “shock’n y’all” is pretty, pretty bad.

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**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/25 "2003-05-22T18:55:17Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by **The Man Who** _
> 
> Toby is also responsible for the first rap-style country video, “Who’s Your Daddy?”

I think you’re thinking of “Let’s Talk About Me.”

> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by **Homebrew** _
> 
> For the record, not all of country music is right-wing neo-con. Ever hear of **Steve Earle** , **Ray Wiley Hubbard** or even **Willie Nelson**. Country has some protest songs and can be bitingly critical of society.

Oh, really? Care to explain “Beer For My Horses,” the duet between Willie Nelson and Toby?:

> [@](#):
>
> Grandpappy told my daddy 'Back in my day, son,  
> A man had to answer For the wicked that he done.  
> Take all the rope in Texas, Find a tall oak tree;  
> Round up all of them bad boys, Hang 'em high in the street.  
> For all the people to see

Yeah, there’s some really cool tunage. :rolleyes: Any respect I had for Nelson went out the window when he’s singing about vilgilanteism and stringing people up in a tree.

Esprix

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**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/26 "2003-05-22T19:10:41Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Esprix \*  
> \*\*Oh, really? Care to explain “Beer For My Horses,” the duet between Willie Nelson and Toby?:  
> \*\*

I _was_ blissfully unaware of that tripe. Thanks for nuthin’

Okay, scratch Willie but what about the others?

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**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/27 "2003-05-22T19:25:32Z")

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And, of course, we all know that because Willy sung about it, it’s a hundred percent accurate representation of his own personal beliefs. This is how we also know that Richard Wagner secretly wanted to be a fat broad on a flying horse.

And not be a junior mod, but I’m pretty sure that the “don’t post complete lyrics to songs” rule doesn’t just apply to Cafe Society.

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**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/28 "2003-05-22T19:58:13Z")

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I’m not one for country music but I am laughing my ass off with admiration for someone who calls his tour “Shock’n Y’all.” It sounds like an album from _A Mighty Wind_.

Singin’  
Wishin’  
Pickin’  
Shock’n Y’all

**Happy** , want to get me a t-shirt that says Shock’n Y’all while you’re there?

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**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/29 "2003-05-22T20:07:00Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> Yeah, there’s some really cool tunage. Any respect I had for Nelson went out the window when he’s singing about vilgilanteism and stringing people up in a tree.

Right, and _John Walker’s Blues_ accurately reflects Steve Earle’s lasting support of Lindh. Wait, no it doesn’t. Aren’t we past this yet?

The difference? I know Nelson and Earle can write excellent, nuanced songs. Everything I’ve ever heard from Keith has been slicked-down slabs of Nashville Lowest Common Denominator bullshit. Plus, I don’t trust Big Nashville. I do trust Nelson and Earle.

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**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/30 "2003-05-22T20:23:11Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by **Miller** _
> 
> And, of course, we all know that because Willy sung about it, it’s a hundred percent accurate representation of his own personal beliefs.

Well since he’s built his reputation of being a man of integrity, why wouldn’t I believe it to be? Do you really think performers (especially established ones like Nelson) would sing any old song - especially if it’s something they wouldn’t agree with? I dunno - vigilanteism seems like something you wouldn’t sing about unless you supported it.

> [@](#):
>
> And not be a junior mod, but I’m pretty sure that the “don’t post complete lyrics to songs” rule doesn’t just apply to Cafe Society.

Hrm. Good point. Didn’t seem long enough to be a problem, but I’ll report myself, just in case.

Esprix

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**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/31 "2003-05-22T20:33:24Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Velma \*  
> \*\*I’m not one for country music but I am laughing my ass off with admiration for someone who calls his tour “Shock’n Y’all.” It sounds like an album from _A Mighty Wind_.
> 
> Singin’  
> Wishin’  
> Pickin’  
> Shock’n Y’all
> 
> **Happy** , want to get me a t-shirt that says Shock’n Y’all while you’re there? \*\*

Sure! Email me (I’m listed) before June 11 and we’ll work out the details.  
Happy

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**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/32 "2003-05-22T20:38:22Z")

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Well, let’s see. On “Red Headed Stranger,” Nelson’s first album, he sings about a preacher murdering his cheating wife and her lover, then murdering another woman for trying to steal his horse.

Then on “Teatro,” he sings about being an obsessive lover and strangling a woman to death on “I Just Can’t Let You Say Goodbye.”

He glorifies highway crimes (including murder and robbery) along with his friends on “The Highwayman.”

Does this mean he necessarily supports murder? Of course not. Toby Keith, however, does believe the shite he wrote in “Angry American.”

> [@](#):
>
> “Any time that you do something from your heart, like “The Angry American,” every lyric in there is either the way I felt or a true lyric about my dad. So any time you reach the masses with something that’s really from the heart, they feel it and I knew the second we released it, we were gonna get some reaction to it.”

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**Author:** ![SweetLucy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@SweetLucy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetLucy)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/33 "2003-05-22T20:42:05Z")

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[QUOTE]  
\*Originally posted by Miller \*  
\*\*And, of course, we all know that because Willy sung about it, it’s a hundred percent accurate representation of his own personal beliefs. This is how we also know that Richard Wagner secretly wanted to be a fat broad on a flying horse.  
My dad is into old-style country music…speaking of Willie, have any of y’all heard “The Troublemaker?” that’s quite a subversive song, in a way. Talks about this rabble-rousing hippie type who is not good for anything, and then the song concludes with (roughly paraphrased) “Friday they’ll take him to a place called Calvary/and nail that troublemaker to a cross.”

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**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/34 "2003-05-22T21:07:34Z")

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And, frankly, I’m not sure where **Miller** got that we think what he sings is necessarily “a hundred percent accurate representation of his own personal beliefs.” I don’t see what that has to do with the fact that the song is a bunch of jingoistic, antagonistic bullshit.

I think that was the point, of both him and Toby Keith.

Esprix

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**Author:** ![The\_Man\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c2a13f/32.png) [@The\_Man\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_Who)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/35 "2003-05-22T22:14:19Z")

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* * *

Originally posted by The Man Who

## Toby is also responsible for the first rap-style country video, “Who’s Your Daddy?”

Esprix replied:

I think you’re thinking of “Let’s Talk About Me.”

* * *

The Man Who replies:

Nope. (Unless I’ve got the title wrong.) I’m thinking of the video with shots of Toby in his brand new truck driving up to his mansion where the sexy girl is dancing with champagne. I’m pretty sure it was Who’s Your Daddy, because I liked the song for a while.

-Myron

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**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/36 "2003-05-22T22:31:04Z")

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There is no rapping in “Who’s Your Daddy,” but plenty of it in “Let’s Talk About Me.” I haven’t seen the videoes for either, but I know the songs.

Esprix

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**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/37 "2003-05-23T00:52:08Z")

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**Robyn** ,

With all due respect, not every person who listens to and likes country is a redneck.

I happen to like country but I also like classical, rock, some pop, smooth jazz, etc…but I do like country.

I drive a Honda, wear docker shorts and sometimes pants, wear Levis jeans, wear cowboy boots, wear clogs, have had a Chevy extended cab long bed with a 454 4x4 black truck, worked in construction, work in computers, etc…

What I am trying to get at is that because it’s country and someone listens to it doesn’t mean they are a redneck.

\< shrugging shoulders \>

Not that it’s a big deal but I think some people may take offense to that, not that I am the PC police because we all hold our own views but assume that some people would be offended by that.

BTW, I have been listening to country for most of my life. One of the most fun times I have ever had was at [Country Jam](http://www.countryjam.com/) in Grand Junction when I lived there. I have seen some of the biggest country acts there and the people that attended varied from your typical redneck to top executives in Colorado industry.

Just an opinion that you may have hurt other people’s feelings for clumping country listeners into some broad category.

No matter, we all hold our own opinions and are entitled to them.

\< hugs \> (yes, hugs in The Pit, get over it, it can happen)

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**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/38 "2003-05-23T00:59:59Z")

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**Esprix** : Now I’m going to have to write a post defending Willie Nelson, which is going to be tough, because my first-hand familiarity with his work is pretty much limited to his cameo in _Half Baked_ and a couple guest appearances on _The Muppet Show_. But here goes anyway.

First off, Willie Nelson has been writing and performing since the early fifties. In more than half a century as a musician, he has written hundreds, if not thousands, of songs. And you’re condemning him as a violent reactionary on the basis of _one_ of them. This seems unfair to me, to say the least.

Second, just as with any narrative art form (and country music in particular is strongly narrative), songwriters often write from the POV of fictional characters. Johnny Cash practically built his career around songs about killing his wife, and yet after 35 years of marriage, he never did get around to shooting his woman down. Because, of course, when he sang “Cocaine Blues,” he wasn’t singing about himself, and he wasn’t singing about his wife. He was singing about a ficitonal murderer who happened to share some autobiographical details with Cash, such as snorting the entire yearly agricultural output of Columbia up his nose.

That doesn’t necessarily mean “Beer for our Horses” isn’t a reflection of Willie Nelson’s values. Toby Keith certainly seems to mean what he sings, Nelson might be no different here. But even if he is, so what? I do not see this song as supporting of vigilantism, nor do I see it as the slightest bit jingoistic. Antagonistic, maybe, but that’s a fairly nebulous accusation and not necessarily a bad thing.

As long as the mods have left the lyrics up, let’s take a look at them. (I appreciate the necessity for the “no complete lyrics rule,” but man, does it make it a pain in the ass to discuss popular music) You say it’s jingoistic. How so? Where is the knee-jerk, irrational Americanism in that song? For that matter, where does it mention America at all? I see a mention of Texas, but that’s only in the context of “a place that’s got a lot of rope.”

You say it’s antagonistic. Well, yes, he’s certainly antagonistic towards murderers, bombers, car thieves and abusive spouses/parents (“someone’s been abused” is not terribly specific, but those are the images that immediately came to mind when I read it). So, Willie’s down on criminals. How is this a bad thing, exactly? He supports hanging them, which is something I absolutely disagree with. I’m adamantly against the death penalty. But I can still respect people who disagree with me on that. And yeah, hanging car thieves is a little harsh, but I think that’s creative hyperbole on Willie’s part, and necessary to the tone of the song, which I’ll get into in a minute.

You say it supports vigilantism. That’s certainly a possible interpretation, but it’s not the one I came away with. The way I read it, Willie is lamenting a general slide into lawlessness. This is a prelude to his reminices of his grandfather, whom I gather from the context was a “real” cowboy. We’re talking nineteenth century, wild west, six-shooters and range-wars type cowboy. The rest of the song is juxtaposing the fast and loose law enforcement of a bygone era with the rampant lawlessness of the current age. This is not a call for vigilantism, but a nostalgia for the days of the _posse comitatus_. Note that, while posse justice left a hell of a lot to be desired, it was **not** extra-legal, as is vigilantism. While a posse _could_ refer to any rabble or mob out for blood, it was also a collection of duly-empowered citizens led by a legitimate law officer, and for a long time in a large part of this country, was the only way to enforce the law in the essentially lawless Western territories.

I don’t see this necessarily as a call for a return to that kind of law enforcement, but rather as a nostalgia for a “simpler” past in response to feelings of powerlessness in the face of social breakdown. At the very worst, it is a romanticizing of the Old West, a practice that’s been going on ever since the Old West was still considered the _New_ West. Hell, the song is called “Beer for Our **Horses**.” If Willie really wanted people to go out and start randomly hanging suspected criminals, do you really think he’d suggest doing it on _horseback_? Of course not. What he’s doing is reminiscing about his granddaddy’s day, when if there was trouble, the Sheriff would gather all the menfolk in town and ride out with their Winchesters and six-shooters to hunt the varmints down. No, that’s not how real life was like, even back then, but since when has real life had anything to do with the popular conception of the frontier?

All that aside, and despite my distaste for Toby Keith in general, “Shock’n Y’all” did get a chuckle out of me. What can I say: I’m easily amused.

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**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/39 "2003-05-23T01:02:42Z")

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Incidentally, I should mention that that interpretation is based solely on the song fragment posted by **Esprix**. I’ve never heard the original in its entirety, and for all I know the rest of the song could be Willie chanting “Kill an Ay-rab for America” over and over.

But I suspect not.

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**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toby-keiths-a-colossal-turd-and-his-proclivity-for-all-things-shitty-knows-no-limits/176719/40 "2003-05-23T01:09:36Z")

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Isn’t Willy Nelson a pothead? I think that’s pretty cool. A country music singing hippie.

That said, Johnny Cash also had some pretty violent songs. Delia, anyone?

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