# Today, Hajieh Esmailvand gets stoned to death. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 21, 2004, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962 "2004-12-21T12:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/21 "2004-12-22T22:24:08Z")
I’m all conflicted. This is a different (very) culture from our own that has some laws that are … different … from how we like to do things. Personally, I’m no fan of capital punishment to begin with, but stoning? I fail to understand what goes on in the mind of a person who is able to pick up a brick and smash part of somebody with it, and to do so from a position of moral superiority. I won’t say it’s wrong–because clearly this is an ancient tradition that I simply do not understand. Just like I can intellectualize the Roman idea of immortal fame being more desirable than life, but I can not empathize no matter how hard I try. I just can comprehend “righteous fury” or whatever it is that makes it possible for people to do this kind of thing to one another. But having said that: How is it ok for Western Culture to put pressure on Persians to stop enforcing their own laws–which are intended to uphold a certain level of morality; but it’s NOT ok for Persians to put pressure on Western Culture to clean up _our_ act? Does not our intervention with this sentence invite reciprocal intervention of some kind? Like I dunno, maybe sending a contingient of morality police to the US and stoning unwed mothers? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/22 "2004-12-22T22:39:44Z")
> [@gum](#): > > These are images of those who weren’t as ‘lucky’ as Hajieh Esmailvand. Those pictures are so valuable to indicate quite how horrendous this is. If anyone hasn’t been able to bring themselves to look yet, I urge you to do so. Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/23 "2004-12-22T23:05:32Z")
Let us hope for regime change soon. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/24 "2004-12-23T00:31:57Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > I’m all conflicted. This is a different (very) culture from our own that has some laws that are … different … from how we like to do things. …How is it ok for Western Culture to put pressure on Persians to stop enforcing their own laws–which are intended to uphold a certain level of morality; but it’s NOT ok for Persians to put pressure on Western Culture to clean up _our_ act? Because the majority of Persians do not support the government and feel these things are horrendous. I know plenty of Persians and I can tell you for a fact that is **not** a cultural thing but the terrible result of letting religion control government. And there are some things that Americans can learn from the Persians. For example, it was ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/25 "2004-12-23T00:38:42Z")
And there are some things that Americans can learn from the Persians. For example, it was recently announced that transgendered people should get religious approval and the government allowed sex change operations and new identity cards for those who’ve been through the operation. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/26 "2004-12-23T01:59:11Z")
Thanks Ava. I feel _somewhat_ less conflicted now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/27 "2004-12-23T03:30:21Z")
This isn’t about trying to change Iranian laws and it’s certainly not about sending over goon squads to impose our values upon others. This is about trying to save the life of an innocent woman who will die horribly. Iranian law stipulates that women condemned in this manner be buried in sand to the neck and then bombarded with rocks (no big ones are allowed - they want to avoid a quick end like **gum** hoped for). This is simply a matter of being tortured to death. Anyone writing to the Iranian authorities in this case should be careful to avoid accusations of injustice or barbarism. That will not help. Remember, the Islamic Republic is not ashamed of this practice. They think it is the work of God. Appeals should be made to the merciful nature of the Islamic state. Sure this is kissing loathsome ass, but you cannot change Iran with letters. You can only try to prevent [this.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4118727.stm) Side note - Iranian does not equal Persian. About 49% of Iranians are Persians. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/28 "2004-12-23T05:45:51Z")
You know, I wonder _who_ will do the stoning. Is it something you volunteer to do? Do you get picked by the government? Will your rock be the final one? Will you tell your children: “There. Daddy’s rock killed a woman. Honest! I saw it hit her eye, amidst her blood-spattered face”. I feel sick. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/29 "2004-12-23T09:20:09Z")
Another recent victim of the IRI was Kaveh Habibi Nejad, a 14 year-old boy that was flogged to death on November 12. Kaveh was sentenced to 85 lashes for eating in public during the holy month of Ramadan. It is believed that he died because the metal cable being used to flog him hit his head. The list of children who have been victims of torture and murder at the hands of IRI is growing. On August 24, 2004 Ateqeh Rajabi, a 16 year old girl, was hanged for acts incompatible with chastity. According to Amnesty International the execution was carried out even though there were reports that Ateqeh was not mentally competent and she did not have access to a lawyer at any time during her trial. According to Amnesty International, the execution of Ateqeh is the tenth execution of a child offender in Iran since 1990. [http://www.iranian.ws/iran\_news/publish/article\_5078.shtml](http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_5078.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/30 "2004-12-23T12:37:59Z")
> [@ava](#): > > And there are some things that Americans can learn from the Persians. For example, it was recently announced that transgendered people should get religious approval and the government allowed sex change operations and new identity cards for those who’ve been through the operation. Of course, in Iran a person seeking a sex change must not wear the clothing of the sex they’re changing to until **after** the operation (penalty for doing so may include death). The United States has never forbidden anyone from getting SRS and it is possible in every state to get papers listing one’s new sex after reassignment surgery is complete. And crossdressing has never been a death penalty offense in the United States. I think it is unfair to claim that Iran is more “enlightened” than, well, really anyone on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/31 "2004-12-23T16:48:58Z")
“Regime Change” won’t do a damn thing. Sure, we could march our army through another giant sandbox and get shot at, but it will not help. This isn’t just a punishment they just started doing last week, their traditions go back far further than us of western societies can even imagine. Try and get executions banned in the U.S (which much of the international community considers “barbaric”). A good chunk of the population believes it to be a good thing for our society (not all, but a hell of a lot more than many other modernized nations). Doesn’t matter who is running the nation, send in a huge imaginary country to try and stop our executions. Good luck to imaginary invading nation on changing the public perception that executions in the U.S. are wrong. I’m not defending their society or government, its truly evil that they are doing this. I just don’t know of many ways to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/32 "2004-12-23T17:24:22Z")
> [@](#): > > According to reports, Hajieh Esmailvand was sentenced to five years imprisonment, **to be followed by execution** by stoning, for adultery with an unnamed man who at the time was a 17 year old minor. How does this work? First imprisonment, then execution? I guess she would not be angling for time off for good behavior, then. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/33 "2004-12-23T18:55:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How does this work? First imprisonment, then execution? > > I guess she would not be angling for time off for good behavior, then. > > Regards, > Shodan Yes, I guess. I’d try to kill some guards while in prison. Maybe they’d shoot me right there and then. Or try to hang myself. To sit there, in that hole in the ground, waiting for the pain and praying for a large, well thrown rock, would be more than I could handle. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962/34 "2005-01-03T22:35:22Z")
Well, good news. The Islamic Republic has caved under international pressure on this one and Hajieh Esmailvand’s death sentance has been suspended (apparently indefinitely). Of course she’s still in the jug, but there is a hope for her now that wouldn’t exist were it not for the intervention of concerned people throughout the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-hajieh-esmailvand-gets-stoned-to-death/280962.md?page=1)