# Today I pit health food producers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024 "2009-08-28T14:13:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/81 "2009-08-31T19:29:54Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > From my own empirical data, muscle mass and exercise are probably the biggest contributors (or lack thereof) to obesity in America. Dude, your own personal experience while you were in college does not constitute “empirical data” that can be extrapolated to “obesity in America.” If you can’t comprehend that, it’s your brain and not your body that is suffering from poor health. Michael Phelps eats 12,000 calories a day, and he’s as lean as a greyhound. Should we therefore conclude that all Americans should eat 12,000 calories a day and swim for 6 hours? Or would it be less retarded to conclude that, because the average American can never burn as many calories as Michael Phelps does in a day, maybe the best way for most people to keep their weight down is to limit their caloric intake? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/82 "2009-08-31T19:39:18Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Dude, your own personal experience while you were in college does not constitute “empirical data” that can be extrapolated to “obesity in America.” If you can’t comprehend that, it’s your brain and not your body that is suffering from poor health. > > Michael Phelps eats 12,000 calories a day, and he’s as lean as a greyhound. Should we therefore conclude that all Americans should eat 12,000 calories a day and swim for 6 hours? Or would it be less retarded to conclude that, because the average American can never burn as many calories as Michael Phelps does in a day, maybe the best way for most people to keep their weight down is to limit their caloric intake? Being slim and being in-shape are not one in the same but I digress. You’ve been whooshed sir. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/83 "2009-08-31T19:40:33Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > friedo, it isn’t really the calories that you burn in the gym. Muscle burns fat at rest (even while sleeping) You can increase your basal metabolic rate by building more muscle mass, but the amount of extra energy you will burn at rest is far less than most people realize. You can have biceps like a tree trunk, but you’ll still be fat if you eat like a land whale. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/84 "2009-08-31T19:41:37Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > You can increase your basal metabolic rate by building more muscle mass, but the amount of extra energy you will burn at rest is far less than most people realize. You can have biceps like a tree trunk, but you’ll still be fat if you eat like a land whale. Did you read my entire post or just pick this one line out? I agreed with you about overeating. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/85 "2009-08-31T19:47:04Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > A bit off topic but I did a caloric intake study while in college of my eating habits. I’ve never been a part of the healthy eating crowd, just blessed with an amazing metabolism and busting my ass in the gym. I’d often spend 8-10 hours a day in the gym. Couple hours lifting weights, the rest doing various cardio related sporting events (volleyball and basketball). > > Anyway, long story-short, my average intake in college was around 6700 calories (I wasn’t especially careful about where I got those calories from either) > > I am still trim today but I am also still doing the various weights/cardio regimen. Granted not nearly as much but my intake has also drastically reduced as well. > > From my own empirical data, muscle mass and exercise are probably the biggest contributors (or lack thereof) to obesity in America. > > This is actually a subject I am very much interested in. Mainly due to the fact that most schools are doing away with everyday P.E. in favor of other subjects. Well that and the fact that I need to learn better cooking/feeding techniques to pass along to my kids. And if the average American job today were the average American job of 100 years ago - manual farm labor for twelve hours a day, then the idea of a farm breakfast and high fat, high caloric meals (often farm meals) would be healthy. One of the things that I think has happened is that our lives got a lot more sedentary post WWII. At the same time, our standard of living made it possible to have “Sunday dinner” every night of the week. For the poor, high caloric meals cheap have historically been critical - because they worked their asses off doing manual labor and needed the calories to sustain that at a small price. When the danger of starvation is real - which it has been in America until about fifty years ago, the important thing is calories - not nutrition. Our farm policy (and by extension our food policy) still is about getting people calories cheaply. But that isn’t what we need any longer. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/86 "2009-08-31T19:48:42Z")
Every pound of lean muscle mass in your body burns around 13 calories per day just by sitting there. That’s…not much. People need to get more exercise and build muscle so that they can be fit. People need to EAT LESS so that they can be at a healthy body weight. These are two very different (although often complementary) goals. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/87 "2009-08-31T19:59:09Z")
Muscle accounts for approximately 45-55% of a man’s weight. The percentage for women is lower. at 50% the muscle burning power in a single day is approx 1235 calories (with no exercise) Burn the other 2-700 calories working out. That comes close to 1600 calories. I haven’t done any research that you burn through the day doing various activities or what the body needs to function during the day, but I can see a 2500 calorie diet being entirely sustainable _IF_ people would learn to stay fit. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/88 "2009-08-31T20:15:15Z")
Another interesting theory (I believed Michael Pollan wrote about it) is that people who eat unhealthily are never sated because their bodies are starved, nutritionally, and won’t stop eating until they get enough of a certain nutrient. So instead of eating an orange for vitamin C, they’ll have ten glasses of watered down fruit punch (all right, I’m sure that’s an overly simplistic example). ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/89 "2009-08-31T20:44:37Z")
For anyone interested in the subject, I can’t recommend Michael Pollan’s [In Defense of Food](http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Food-Eaters-Manifesto/dp/0143114964/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251751434&sr=1-1) highly enough. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/90 "2009-09-01T03:43:42Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > That may be, but this thread seems to be more about general “healthy eating” than dietary modifications needed for specific health problems. If a person is generally trying to eat healthier, eating a muffin with a huge glob of Smart Balance Buttery Spread instead of butter isn’t going to help as much as finding something to eat that doesn’t require a huge glob of something buttery. That’s not really fair. Where did I say or anyone say that they had to have a big glob of butter or Smart Balance? I realize that portion size is a huge problem for many people, but some of us are sensible enough to know what a serving size is and stick to it. Just because we’ve substituted something healthier for something terribly unhealthy, we are ignoring portion sizes. If a person is trying to eat healthier, there’s nothing wrong with a multigrain muffin with a serving size (or less) of Smart Balance, so long as they aren’t exceeding caloric requirements, but they are meeting their nutritional needs. As to the rest of your post, I don’t disagree, but I thought this thread was about how healthy foods are more expensive than less healthy foods, of which I was giving an example as it applies to me. Instead, it’s turned into a processed foods (which are generally less healthy) are more expensive than raw foods (which are generally healthier) argument, which, to me, seems obvious, but less than the whole picture. In fact, some processed foods are healthy to eat, but very expensive. I don’t condone living off of processed foods alone, but for some people, having healthier options in processed foods offer a convenience that serves them well. To be sure, however, you can’t expect in most cases to not pay a premium for convenience. My beef _har, har_ with food is that industrial farming is turning what used to be healthy, nutritional foods into cheap, nutritionally barren foods and most of us turn a blind eye to the part that consumerism and capitalism plays in that. We want everything available all the time at cheap prices and in visually stunning (even if nutritionally and flavorfully substandard) presentations. My preserves must have HFCS or else it has to be artificially sweetened; whatever happened to plain, old sugar? Even our bread is sweetened with HFCS. Why? Because the government subsidizes it to make it cheaper than sugar. Our meat and dairy is full of hormones and antibiotics and is fed genetically modified grain. Why? Because the government subsidizes it and it’s cheaper to farm in massive quantities. Our veggies are contaminated with E.Coli. Why? Because the contaminated soil is so depleted, it can’t produce the quantity of produce we require without using contaminated fertilizers. High mercury levels in fish; artificially fed farm-raised salmon; the list goes on and on. The true cost of food is in what our production methods is doing to the environment and our own health. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/91 "2009-09-01T14:23:01Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Erm… the “healthy food lobby” idea sort of falls apart here. I’m pretty sure that the same companies are producing the “healthy” beef, chips, and butter as the regular beef, chips, and butter. > > Besides, if you’re really concerned with eating healthy, skip anything that can only be called “healthy”. The answer is not “healthy” potato chips, it’s \*fewer \*potato chips. Exactly. When supermarketing, if you see any Big Food product with a predominately green label\*, stay far away from it. The more _they_ claim it’s “healthy”, the less chance that it is. Truly healthy food doesn’t need to scream and yell that it’s healthy. Scam. \*It still cracks me up that “green label” became the universal American signal for bogus “healthy” food at some point in the 1980’s. Some company started using it on their ersatz crap, had some success with it, and the rest were afraid of getting left off the gravy-train that is cheap fillers and chemical pseudo-ingredients masquerading as health-food. Sometimes (usually) corporate hacks can be such unoriginal followers. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/92 "2009-09-02T16:01:57Z")
I raise pastured chickens for living-birds that are antibiotic and hormone free and raised outside for a majority of their lives. My poultry is much higher in Omega-3’s because it has access to plants and bugs-an essential part of any chickens diet. The birds don’t live in their own shit and are not overcrowded. We also process our birds on site to ensure that the meat is clean and safe and to hold down the final costs. It’s really really labor intensive but the end result is truly different from confinement house chicken. Is it cheap? No, we charge $3.50 per pound for a whole bird at the local farmer’s market and we’re about the most economical producers in our area. However, if you are willing to ‘work’ the bird, you can get at least 3 meals out of a 4 pound chicken. Or, you can form a buyer’s club, purchase 20 birds at a time, and I will reduce the price to $3.25 per pound and deliver the chicken to you on my weekly rounds. I also offer ‘defect’ birds at a greatly reduced price-chickens that have lost a wing or have bruised breast or legs or other cosmetic issues that do not affect the quality of the meat. We can’t lower our prices and maintain the same standards of quality. We just barely make a decent living as it is and every day is a gamble that we can beat the weather and the predators. Some of our clients have actually suggested that we should raise our prices because they know how hard we work to bring the birds to market but we won’t until we absolutely have to because we want to keep our chicken accessible to everyone. So no,it’s **not** always the same companies producing the both the healthy and unhealthy meats. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/93 "2009-09-03T05:57:27Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > So no,it’s **not** always the same companies producing the both the healthy and unhealthy meats. I think you’re proposing a dilemma where there really is none. There is nothing “unhealthy” about factory-farmed chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/94 "2009-09-03T12:36:49Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I think you’re proposing a dilemma where there really is none. There is nothing “unhealthy” about factory-farmed chicken. Really? You don’t think there’s anything unhealthy about avian influenza and it’s potential impact on the human population? [It’s no secret](http://us.oneworld.net/node/146498) that cramming thousands of genetically modified chickens together in a cramped situations exacerbates the spread of disease. > [@](#): > > Researchers observed that rising demand for meat helped drive livestock production away from rural, mixed-farming systems, where farmers raise a few different species on a grass diet, toward intensive periurban and urban production of pigs and chickens. > > According to their findings, unregulated zoning and subsidies that encourage livestock production, chicken and pig “confined animal feedlot operations” (CAFOs), or factory farms, are moving closer to major urban areas in China, Bangladesh, India, and many countries in Africa. > > “Locating large chicken farms near cities might make economic sense,” said Nierenberg, “but the close concentration of the birds to densely populated areas can help foster and spread disease.” > > In Laos, for example, more than 40 outbreaks of avian flu in the spring of 2004 took place on factory farms located in close proximity to the capital, Vientiane. > > Similarly, in Nigeria, the study found the first cases of avian flu appeared in the industrial broiler operation of a 46,000-bird farm and eventually spread to 30 other large-scale farms. Within a few days, the virus had engulfed neighboring backyard flocks, forcing poor farmers to kill their chickens. Furthermore, factory farming creates far more animal secretion than the environment can handle. You’d think that all that chicken shit would go into fertilizer, and when it does, there aren’t concerns with [antibiotic resistance](http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/antibiotic-resistant-bacteria-persist-in-chicken-manure), but that’s not the case. What doesn’t [seep into the environment](http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-752921.html) and create further health problems for all living organisms, including people, goes into animal feed. That’s right, the farmed fish and beef you eat were fed chicken shit. Chicken shit laced with E.Coli, Salmonella, Campylobacter, staphylococci and enterococci. Nope, perfectly healthy. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/95 "2009-09-03T16:13:00Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > So no,it’s **not** always the same companies producing the both the healthy and unhealthy meats. Well no, but unless your chicken is available at Stop & Shop (or whatever Big Supermarket predominates in your neck of the woods), it’s kind of irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I presume (perhaps incorrectly) that your clients are both knowledgeable enough to seek you out, and affluent enough that the cost is not an issue for them. Nothing wrong with that, good on you. But for someone who DOES shop at the local megamart, the chicken options are pretty much Purdue and store brand, and 80/20 and 90/10 beef mentioned in the OP \*are \*from the same sources and I’m pretty sure that none of those sources are operations like yours. I wish they were, but they’re just not. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/96 "2009-09-03T17:19:05Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Why is eating healthy so damn expensive? Don’t the producers of this food know that there is a dynamic thriving epidemic of diabetes of the 2nd type ravaging this great country? > > Obama wants to better America? He needs to tax the ever loving shit out of “fast food” producers that poison the general populace on a daily basis. Hell, that would probably give him enough money for health care reform if we could ever decide what needs doing. > > Bottom line is, eating healthy shouldn’t be nigh impossible for the majority of Americans. > > Exercise is another topic I’d love to tackle, but I suppose I can’t make people out there run their asses off (literally) I hate running. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/97 "2009-09-03T19:15:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Well no, but unless your chicken is available at Stop & Shop (or whatever Big Supermarket predominates in your neck of the woods), it’s kind of irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Well, I am at the same Farmer’s market every Saturday and that market is on several bus routes. And, as I mentioned in my first post, if you put together an order of 20 chickens or more, I’ll deliver them right to your office or house for a discounted price, so I’m not sure how much more I can do to make the birds accessible. Yes, you have to put a little effort into planning and organizing and contacting me but heh, I have to put a lot of effort into raising the birds so I don’t think I’m asking for much. > [@](#): > > I think you’re proposing a dilemma where there really is none. There is nothing “unhealthy” about factory-farmed chicken. Wow.If you believe that there is no qualitative health difference between my chicken and a factory farm bird, I really don’t know what to say except enjoy those antibiotic laden fecal nuggets. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/98 "2009-09-04T03:49:34Z")
Mmmm, ‘fecal nuggets’! \<[Glaarrrrghh!](http://media.photobucket.com/image/homer%20simpson/honeybunch2k6/drooling-homer-simpson.jpg)\> ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/99 "2009-09-04T11:30:30Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > Well, I am at the same Farmer’s market every Saturday and that market is on several bus routes. > And, as I mentioned in my first post, if you put together an order of 20 chickens or more, I’ll deliver them right to your office or house for a discounted price, so I’m not sure how much more I can do to make the birds accessible. > Yes, you have to put a little effort into planning and organizing and contacting me but heh, I have to put a lot of effort into raising the birds so I don’t think I’m asking for much. That’s all great, and just to clarify, my first post wasn’t any sort of an accusation. I can’t think of anything you could do to make them more accessible either, nor am I suggesting they should be cheaper. I’m just pointing out that the vast majority of people don’t do their shopping at the Farmer’s Market\*, or organize an office chicken delivery.\*\* As mentioned repeatedly in this thread, people go for convenience. And lots of people can barely be persuaded that whole wheat pasta with frozen vegetables is a good “convenience” trade-off for Kraft Dinner, so I don’t see them seeking out their local farmer’s markets. That’s sure as hell not your fault, and I’m not proposing any sort of solution here, because I don’t have one. \*I don’t remember seeing meats of any kind at my local farmer’s markets, and a quick (and completely UNthorough) check of their [website](http://www.massfarmersmarkets.org/FMFM_Main.aspx) seems to confirm that memory. Bummer. \*\*A phrase which called up a mental image of the WKRP turkey drop. Hee. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024/100 "2009-09-04T15:21:36Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > \*\*A phrase which called up a mental image of the WKRP turkey drop. Hee. 😃 > [@](#): > > “As God as my witness…I thought turkeys could fly!” 😃 ([youtube clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FXSnoy71Q4)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-health-food-producers/508024.md?page=6)