# Today I Pit the people who love and hate Michael Moore. Listen up, screwheads. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226 "2004-07-02T15:49:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/1 "2004-07-02T15:49:48Z")
This rant will be broken into two sections. Please direct yourself to the section that best describes you. If you **love** Michael Moore, please read Section One. If you **hate** Michael Moore, please read Section Two. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. > [@](#): > > **Section One: For Michael Moore Lovers** > > Enough already. I get that “Fahrenheit 911” is the greatest thing to hit celluloid since Citizen Kane. I get that deciding not to watch it not only makes me a stupid, ugly American, but probably also a closet Communist who masturbates to Al-Qaeda propaganda flyers in my spare time. But let me ask you this, for just one second: > > **Why do you have to be such an outspoken asshole about it?** > > I understand that political arguments have the potential to be a conversation landmine, but I swear, it’s the viciousness of the Michael Moore threads that have permanently turned me off of watching this film. I’m all about intelligent, even heated debate. But I’m not going to be browbeaten into watching a movie by people who call you a knuckle-dragging idiot for not doing so. > > People have different opinions than you do. Accept it, and move on. If you’re right, and Mike Moore is a genius, then time will tell the tale, and you’ll get to say ‘I told you so’ to your detractors. In the meantime, shut the hell up, and get off my back. I’m not going to go see this film because you screamed at me about what a bad person I am for not doing so. > > Above all, be nice to people for a change. Christ, were you raised in a barn? The reason the world’s so fucked-up in the first place is because we don’t treat people like we want to be treated. It starts at home. > > Thank you. > [@](#): > > **Section Two: For Michael Moore Haters** > > Enough already. I get that you think “Fahrenheit 911” is an overblown, politically-motivated smear campaign against Bush and Company. I get that deciding to watch it not only makes me a gullible, anti-American, but probably also a closet Communist who Despises the Freedoms of our Country. But let me ask you this, for just one second: > > **Why do you have to be such an outspoken asshole about it?** > > I understand that political arguments have the potential to be a conversation landmine, but I swear, it’s the viciousness of the Michael Moore threads that have made me want to watch this movie **even more.** I’m all about intelligent, even heated debate. But I’m not going to be browbeaten into boycotting a movie by people who call you an Anti-American fucktard for wanting to check out a film. > > People have different opinions than you do. Accept it, and move on. If you’re right, and Mike Moore is an anti-American terrorist-sympathizer, then time will tell the tale, and you’ll get to say ‘I told you so’ to your detractors. In the meantime, shut the hell up, and get off my back. I’m going to go see this film anyway, so learn to accept it. Maybe I’ll even learn something. > > Above all, be nice to people for a change. Christ, were you raised in a barn? The reason the world’s so fucked-up in the first place is because we don’t treat people like we want to be treated. It starts at home. > > Thank you. Jesus, if two groups ever needed a Peace Summit, it’s not the Israelis and the Palestinians. It’s the pro-Moore and anti-Moore camps. Or at least a little cross-breeding, so we end up with people who: A) See Michael Moore’s movies, but understand that the purpose of his films is to **entertain** B) Learn the benefit of being tolerant of other people’s political leanings and views C) Understand that they don’t know everything, and there’s frequently a lot to learn from people that don’t feel exactly the same way you do Now let’s sit back and let both sides lambaste me for 100 or so replies, since I’m pretty sure that’s how it’s going to go. Can’t we all just get along? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/2 "2004-07-02T16:03:31Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > Now let’s sit back and let both sides lambaste me for 100 or so replies, since I’m pretty sure that’s how it’s going to go. > > Can’t we all just get along? :rolleyes: Heh–great rant! I’m not exactly mr. Conservative, and I’ve seen every one of Moore’s films, and I’m pretty excited about the effect the movie is having on the electorate–but I’m in no hurry to go out and see it myself. I’m much more excited about seeing Spiderman 2 on Monday, and about taking my sweet wife to see Kill Bill Vol 2 at the dollar theater later this week. But my mom is coming to visit this afternoon. My mom who left a message for me last Friday telling me how important it was, not only for me to see the movie over opening weekend, but also to make it to one of Move On’s movie discussion parties afterwards. I love my mom, but she’s a bit of a joiner, y’know? Better Michael Moore than Tony Robbins, but I’m still not really looking forward to the weekend movie discussions. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/3 "2004-07-02T16:46:22Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > Can’t we all just get along? :rolleyes: Fuck _that_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/4 "2004-07-02T16:49:20Z")
Well, in every debate over the film that i’ve participated in, including the ones on this message board, i’ve never seen anyone suggest that not seeing Moore’s film makes someone “a closet Communist who masturbates to Al-Qaeda propaganda flyers in my spare time.” In fact, my criticism is not with people who don’t want to see the film. I’ve made it very clear in another thread that i completely respect that decision. My main criticism has been reserved for those who state that they have no intention of seeing the film, and yet proceed to accuse it of being “propaganda” and lies," based on nothing but third party reports. As i said in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=263534&page=2&pp=50): > [@](#): > > Finally, i also have no problem with someone deciding that they hate Michael Moore so much that they refuse to see this film. That’s completely unproblematic. I made a decision early on not to see _The Passion_, because i think Mel Gibson is an idiot, and, basically, i just wasn’t that interested. But, having made that decision, i also decided not to make an ass of myself on this message board by pretending to know something about a film that i had never seen, or simply posting links to people who supported my general view of Gibson. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/5 "2004-07-02T16:53:03Z")
> [@](#): > > A) See Michael Moore’s movies, but understand that the purpose of his films is to entertain I strongheartedly disagree. If you replace \*the \* with _a_, you have a point. But Moore’s ultimate purpose is to educate and motivate. Time will tell…blah, blah, blah. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/6 "2004-07-02T17:03:16Z")
Well I don’t love him or hate him but I do love your post. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/7 "2004-07-02T18:11:16Z")
I’d like to know who these rabid MM fans are. I keep hearing them referred to… for instance, this quote from the back jacket of _Michael Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Man_: “And how large of an impact do his incendiary, ill-founded polemics have on the growing community that follows him with near-religious devotion?” Who follows him with near-religious devotion? Anyone? The consensus among liberals, at least on the dope, if there is one, is someting along the lines of “We respect his passion, are glad that someone is speaking out so publically and visibly about topics that aren’t frequently discussed in the mainstream, are sometimes entertained by his movies, but wish he was more rigorous and careful with his facts. Not that he deliberately fabricates things, but he seems to be willing to twist things more than we’re comfortable with to make points. Plus, circumstantial evidence indicates that he’s a bit of an egomaniacal jerk. Nonetheless, we go see his movies.” ---
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/8 "2004-07-02T18:21:28Z")
Hey, **Chastain86** , how’s it feel to keep banging your head against the wall??? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/9 "2004-07-02T18:23:50Z")
I’m thinking of printing up the OP and posting it around my workplace. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/10 "2004-07-02T18:30:19Z")
Where’s the section for the people who have never seen any of his work and don’t understand what all the fuss is about? ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/11 "2004-07-02T18:39:38Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > A) See Michael Moore’s movies, but understand that the purpose of his films is to **entertain** > B) Learn the benefit of being tolerant of other people’s political leanings and views > C) Understand that they don’t know everything, and there’s frequently a lot to learn from people that don’t feel exactly the same way you do I don’t think that, in the current politcal context and climate, that A is an acceptable argument, nor true, as **mhendo** says. However, A-fuckin-men to B and C. I’ve had people tell me, “The way you criticize Moore, I don’t want to hear what you have to say about him.” And I make it point to be civil and logical when I debate, and if I don’t know something, I’ll admit it, rather than make shit up and make myself (and my argument) look idiotic. Another gem was, “I never claimed to be open-minded.” This goes for a lot of political debate- no one seems to see any gray area anymore. Everyone either parrots what the Bush administration says, or they parrot what Moore says. I guess each side has 1920s style “Blindness Rays” that render the whole spectrum in between completely invisible, and it’s really disappointing and sickening. Even in places like San Francisco and Santa Cruz, where political discourse is supposed to be part of our identity, no one bothers to think for themselves. I’d love to have a good debate about Moore, and I can go both ways with him, but I refuse to do so with someone who refuses to think. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Who follows [Moore] with near-religious devotion? Ever been to UCSC? ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/12 "2004-07-02T18:42:09Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The consensus among liberals, at least on the dope, if there is one, is someting along the lines of “We respect his passion, are glad that someone is speaking out so publically and visibly about topics that aren’t frequently discussed in the mainstream, are sometimes entertained by his movies, but wish he was more rigorous and careful with his facts. Not that he deliberately fabricates things, but he seems to be willing to twist things more than we’re comfortable with to make points. Plus, circumstantial evidence indicates that he’s a bit of an egomaniacal jerk. Nonetheless, we go see his movies.” That’s roughly what I feel about him, though I wouldn;t quite say I respect anythign about him. But the problem is that the consensus of the Dope is not the consensus of the country/world, and therein lies the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/13 "2004-07-02T18:49:17Z")
> [@Troy McClure SF](#): > > Ever been to UCSC? Discologists? :eek: :smack: Say no more. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/14 "2004-07-02T18:50:57Z")
> [@Troy McClure SF](#): > > the problem is that the consensus of the Dope is not the consensus of the country/world, and therein lies the problem. A-fucking-men to that–though if our consensus WERE the country/world consensus, Moore wouldn’t need to make his films in the first place. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/15 "2004-07-02T18:51:43Z")
Michael Who? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/16 "2004-07-02T19:12:04Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Michael Who? [This guy](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ics.uci.edu/~mikemo/michael_dc.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ics.uci.edu/~mikemo/&h=407&w=369&sz=38&tbnid=F1wwNCHELfEJ:&tbnh=120&tbnw=108&start=78&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmichael%2Bmoore%26start%3D60%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/17 "2004-07-02T19:14:52Z")
Michael Moore. The most pitted man at SDMB. Some might say this means he is the most hated man at SDMB. Does Cecil agree? Some might say he does since his board and his column are both owned by the Chicago Reader. Is this why Michael Moore chose to live in a ritzy New York apartment instead of a rundown Chicago flat? Some might say so. Could there be a more evil man than Michael Moore? You let the facts decide. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/18 "2004-07-02T19:22:24Z")
I usually like what Moore says, though I sometimes feel embarassed by the way he says them. I haven’t bought nor read **Stupid White Men** or **Dude, Where’s My Country?** for that reason. On the other hand, I think **Fahrenheit 9/11** is his strongest work yet, both from a thematic standpoint and from a fairness/accuracy/non-distortion standpoint. I’m still waiting to find someone with a legitimate criticism of the film that didn’t come from their own distortion of what Moore’s presenting on the screen. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/19 "2004-07-02T19:24:19Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Michael Moore. The most pitted man at SDMB. Some might say this means he is the most hated man at SDMB. Does Cecil agree? Some might say he does since his board and his column are both owned by the Chicago Reader. Is this why Michael Moore chose to live in a ritzy New York apartment instead of a rundown Chicago flat? Some might say so. Could there be a more evil man than Michael Moore? You let the facts decide. Riiiiight. See, the nice thing about attacking someone through sarcasm and vague smug implication is that there’s nothing to refute, so no one can actually debate whatever point you may or may not be trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226/20 "2004-07-02T19:33:16Z")
**Max** , the only person on this board who seems to follow Moore from thread to thread with near-religious devotion is **Libertarian**. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-i-pit-the-people-who-love-and-hate-michael-moore-listen-up-screwheads/253226.md?page=2)