# Today in nature I saw **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 20, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854 "2020-07-20T18:22:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 196
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3904 "2025-09-23T19:45:19Z")
They are. We’ve got loads of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3905 "2025-09-23T20:15:23Z")
Ah, right. Thanks. (I’m posting on my phone and couldn’t figure out how to look that up mid post, and so didn’t know how much I needed to explain. Answer: nothing 😉 ) Yeah, introductions are a problem. I probably feel the same way about grey squirrels. But these little guys are indigenous here, and always fun to watch. j ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3906 "2025-09-23T23:47:31Z")
The myth is that Sparrows and Starlings were both introduced by the same guy, who wanted every bird mentioned in Shakespeare to be in America. Probably untrue, but a good tale. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3907 "2025-09-24T02:15:49Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > The myth is that Sparrows and Starlings were both introduced by the same guy, who wanted every bird mentioned in Shakespeare to be in America The guy in question, [Eugene Schieffelin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Schieffelin), probably does deserve the blame for starlings and he enthusiastically supported the introduction of house sparrows. But in the latter case those introductions had already started in the 1850’s. The Shakespeare stuff likely is iffy, though not impossible - just that it would not have been a primary motivator. Bit of personal trivia, I have a battered used hardbound copy of the first edition of Roger Tory Peterson’s A Field Guide to Western Birds, copyright 1941, that my mother must have bought for me some time in the 1970’s (when I absolutely was not a birder, that didn’t happen until decades later - I wasn’t even when I was taking ornithology in college). In it Peterson mentions that the European Starling had ‘now reached the Rockies and might eventually penetrate the Far West’. How right he was 😃. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3908 "2025-09-24T07:09:58Z")
Pardon my ignorance, but what’s “The Shakespreare stuff”? I’ll pay for that information with a little exchange - where I was brought up (the far north west of England) the word for that bird is: Spuggy. j ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3909 "2025-09-24T07:46:17Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > Pardon my ignorance, but what’s “The Shakespreare stuff”? > [@beowulff](#): > > The myth is that Sparrows and Starlings were both introduced by the same guy, who wanted every bird mentioned in Shakespeare to be in America. So Shakespeare mentions starlings in Henry IV: He said he would not ransom Mortimer, Forbade my tongue to speak of Mortimer. But I will find him when he lies asleep, And in his ear I’ll hollo “Mortimer.” Nay, I’ll have a starling shall be taught to speak Nothing but “Mortimer,” and give it him To keep his anger still in motion. Sparrows in Hamlet: _Not a whit. We defy augury._ _There is a special providence in the fall of a sparrow._ _If it be now, ‘tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be now;_ _If it be not now yet it will come._ _The readiness is all. Since no man of aught he leaves knows,_ _what is ‘t to leave betimes? Let be._ So the notion was that an American romantic and amateur ornithologist, the aforementioned Eugene Schieffelin, decided whimsically that every bird Shakespeare mentioned should be imported to North America. The source of this notion was a [naturalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Way_Teale) writing more than a half-century later who apparently had no actual cite to prove it. It’s not impossible that it’s still true - Teale may have had a since lost informant/source that told him that was one of Schieffelin’s motivations. It was exactly the sort of romantic nonsense you’d expect from a 19th century amateur ornithologist. But Teale also might have pulled it out of his ass because it was exactly the sort of romantic nonsense you’d expect from a 19th century amateur ornithologist and it made for a good story 🙂. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3910 "2025-09-24T19:18:11Z")
Thank you for that- ignorance fought. Here’s a hijack that I’ll apologize for in advance, but it involves one of very few newspaper articles that has made me cry with laughter. So: he didn’t introduce the grey heron then? The Guardian, an excellent British newspaper, many years ago ran a column in which a learned Professor of English explained the following lines from Hamlet: “I am but mad north-north-west. When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw." A handsaw, the good professor explained, is a heron. I never actually saw that article, so I can’t comment on his arguments. I saw the next week’s column. It turned out that the Guardian was the paper of choice for erudite plasterers, and you would be surprised how many of them wrote in to point out that a hawk is what you use to hold plaster, and a handsaw is, uh, a handsaw. And you need both to build lath and plaster houses of the type so popular in Shakespeare’s day. The handsaw = heron theory is still out there - maybe it’s correct; but watching an editor wrestle with the bleeding obvious explanation of the lines was hilarious. Who knew that professors of English don’t hang around in builders merchants? j ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2025, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3911 "2025-09-25T00:25:58Z")
Huh, I always just figured that that line was two completely different things, implying that you’d have to be stark raving north-north-west to not know the difference between a bird of prey and a woodworking tool. Sort of a cow tools type of thing. And while sparrows might be introduced, doesn’t North America have a variety of other Little Brown Birds that are nearly indistinguishable from them, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2025, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3912 "2025-09-25T06:07:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And while sparrows might be introduced, doesn’t North America have a variety of other Little Brown Birds that are nearly indistinguishable from them, anyway? Many, many. But New World sparrows (141 species) and Old World sparrows (43 species) are not closely related. New World sparrows are more closely related to Old World buntings…which look a lot like sparrows 🙂. Then there are the finches, the sparrow-larks and others. There just seems to be an awful lot of convergent evolution pushing towards little brown(ish) birds as a highly adaptive shape/form. But what’s this about not being able to tell them apart? Are you saying it is hard to distinguish an Old World [Yellow-browed Bunting](https://www.shanghaibirding.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/bunting-yellow-browed004.jpg) from a New World [White-throated Sparrow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-throated_sparrow#/media/File:Zonotrichia_albicollis_CT1.jpg) at 20 yards out? Are you mad, man? They are completely and utterly different! ---
**Author:** ![Cugel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cugel/32/1199_2.png) [@Cugel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cugel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2025, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3913 "2025-09-25T09:15:22Z")
Not today, but a while ago, this guy. For some reason, Canberra has peafowl. [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/iGlQzE4.jpeg?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/hF1h5sk) ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2025, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3914 "2025-09-25T12:39:44Z")
Stunning! (Click on that pic, y’all) ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3915 "2025-09-26T18:20:49Z")
Well, I didn’t see it, but my camera did. Bear sauntering across our front yard at 1:15 AM: ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3916 "2025-09-26T18:39:04Z")
Neato! We could have bears here in theory, but I’m just as glad that I’ve never seen one in the yard. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3917 "2025-09-26T18:40:25Z")
He left a big “present” in the back yard. Damaged the neighbor’s fence getting in. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3918 "2025-09-26T18:41:17Z")
All the good spots in the woods must have been taken. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3919 "2025-09-26T19:23:53Z")
OR, the old adage has just been aggressively disproven. Now I don’t know what to believe anymore 🙂. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3920 "2025-09-27T01:40:22Z")
At Point Lobos, a squadron (pod, pouch, or scoop) of pelicans enjoying having Gibson Beach all to themselves. [![](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54814664740_6299942f7a_b.jpg) ](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54814664740_6299942f7a_b.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3921 "2025-09-27T01:58:33Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > At Point Lobos, a squadron (pod, pouch, or scoop) of pelicans enjoying having Gibson Beach all to themselves. Wow! That’s quite a sight. My favorite spot on the CA coast, though I don’t go as often as I should. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3922 "2025-09-27T19:33:34Z")
Over Roussillon in Provence, unusual clouds formations. [![Google Photos](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczO30AiPwkxEUm06sC-Q4IBsnisoMrL9vDgHjGrT99Y6tPOym_cwJAUpUS5ROYYeeeHj6eyhD4SYjjkuiXKaUaiGQt1ZHPPs_9YcnC723DIQiKKdV7o=w600-h315-p-k "New photo · Saturday, Sep 27 📸") ](https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNTHgZQHJoxKnrgXudF9vGnDH9Qlgv0nhlREaSMr19fgYFTwLER_wO0XKMkXUCqnw?key=Rk9RNk5zRmxELUMzS0RaQzFBTDZSQVJrSy1HRFVB) Click through for the full image. j ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854/3923 "2025-09-28T01:17:10Z")
Don’t you just love clouds? I just walked home from getting some dinner, barely beat the rain. This is what the sky looked like: [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/taVmDdE.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/taVmDdE) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854.md?page=195) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-in-nature-i-saw/915854.md?page=197)