# Today is a Great Day: Kenneth Lay to be Indicted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034 "2004-07-07T23:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/1 "2004-07-07T23:20:14Z")
I thought it might never happen… My 401k took a pounding because of that son-of-a-bitch. While that motherfucking fat cat sat in his mansions sneering at us, tens of thousands were losing their life-savings; all because of that bastard’s calumny and greed. Fucker. I hope you rot in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/2 "2004-07-07T23:38:23Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I > > Fucker. I hope you rot in prison. I’ve just got a bad feeling he’ll never spend a day behind bars, not with having a good buddy in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/3 "2004-07-07T23:55:27Z")
Let’s look on the bright side: Maybe somewhere in the closets lurks a skeleton with both Kenny and Dubya’s name on it. Wouln’t that be freaking perfect! ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/4 "2004-07-07T23:55:15Z")
Let’s look on the bright side: Maybe somewhere in the closets lurks a skeliton with both Kenny and Dubya’s name on it. Wouln’t that be freaking perfect! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/5 "2004-07-08T00:34:01Z")
[The Perils of Kenny-Boy](http://www.consortiumnews.com/2002/052902a.html) > [@](#): > > A grateful Bush gave Lay a major voice in shaping energy policy and picking personnel. Starting in late February 2001, Lay and other Enron officials took part in at least a half dozen secret meetings to develop the Bush’s energy plan. > > After one of the Enron meetings, Vice President Dick Cheney’s energy task force changed a draft energy proposal to include a provision to boost oil and natural gas production in India. The amendment was so narrow that it apparently was targeted only to help Enron’s troubled Dabhol power plant in India. [Washington Post, Jan. 26, 2002] > > Other parts of the Bush energy plan tracked closely to recommendations from Enron officials. Seventeen of the energy plan’s proposals were sought by and benefited Enron, according to Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., ranking minority member on the House Government Reform Committee. One proposal called for repeal of the Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935, which limits the activities of utilities and hindered Enron’s potential for acquisitions. > > Besides listening to Lay’s advice, Bush put the corporation’s allies inside the federal government. Two top administration officials, Lawrence Lindsey, the White House’s chief economic adviser, and Robert Zoellick, the U.S. Trade Representative, both worked for Enron, Lindsey as a consultant and Zoellick as a paid member of Enron’s advisory board. [[http://www.public-i.org/story\_01\_011102.htm](http://www.public-i.org/story_01_011102.htm)] > > Bush also named Thomas E. White Jr., an 11-year veteran of Enron’s corporate suites, to be secretary of the Army. White had run a key subsidiary, Enron Energy Services, which is now the focus of allegations about accounting irregularities. > > At least 14 administration officials owned stock in Enron, with Undersecretary of State Charlotte Beers and chief political adviser Karl Rove each reporting up to $250,000 worth of Enron stock when they joined the administration. But let it not be said that Bush abandons his friends: > [@](#): > > As the accounting scandal provoked disgust across the country and across party lines, the White House sought to minimize its relationship with Enron. In spite of a personal acquaintance best symbolized by Bush’s nickname for “Kenny Boy,” Bush began to act as if he barely knew Lay. On Jan. 11, Bush told reporters that Lay “was a supporter of Ann Richards in my run in 1994,” implying that he had gotten to know Lay as Gov. Richards’ holdover appointee to a Texas business council. ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/6 "2004-07-08T00:56:57Z")
Damn. More political and business sleaze. I’m so fucking sick of this shit. And I vote. I really hope Kerry and Edwards don’t have this kind of shit in their closets, because I will vote for them. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/7 "2004-07-08T00:57:19Z")
They should arrest the bastard right now. Fuck the “surrender to the police at your convenience” bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/8 "2004-07-08T00:59:31Z")
Amen, **monstro**! ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/9 "2004-07-08T01:01:28Z")
I frankly never thought it would happen. Amazed it did, while Bush was still in office. Glad it did, though. Although it bothers me somewhat that even if they find him guilty, guilty, guilty on all charges, there’s an excellent possibility he’ll never spend a day in prison. And even if he does go to prison, it’ll be some minimum security country club, and he’ll serve eighteen months or so, and then go back to being an insanely rich scumdog. If America is lucky, he’ll retire. Hell, I’d sentence him to BE one of the people whose lives and retirement plans got demolished because of his decisions – or at least as close to it as I could manage. What some of THOSE folks went through was, I suspect, far more stressful than a fair trial and a short stay in golf jail… ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/10 "2004-07-08T01:28:20Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > Although it bothers me somewhat that even if they find him guilty, guilty, guilty on all charges, there’s an excellent possibility he’ll never spend a day in prison. > > And even if he does go to prison, it’ll be some minimum security country club, and he’ll serve eighteen months or so, and then go back to being an insanely rich scumdog. Nah. With the testimony of the confederates the Fed have turned, they’ve got him dead to rights on the insider trading charge, even if the fraud one will be more difficult (he’s apparently doing a very good job of “Shucks, I was just the dumb salesman; those financial boys from the Ivy Leagues were the bad guys and I believed them, same as you!” We’ll see how that one plays.). I think he’s going to [Federal POUND ME IN THE ASS prison](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151804/quotes). ---
**Author:** ![bughunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@bughunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bughunter)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/11 "2004-07-08T01:52:49Z")
No. Regrettably, I think he’s probably going to a Federal “Tee Time is at Four” prison, if he gets time at all. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/12 "2004-07-08T02:15:31Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > They should arrest the bastard right now. Fuck the “surrender to the police at your convenience” bullshit. Wouldn’t it be interesting if ordinary people could do this? “If you’d be so good, we’d like to arrest you now, if that’s convenient.” “Mm… I’m thinking not, though I could pencil you in for next Saturday at three.” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/13 "2004-07-08T06:05:51Z")
I think I’ll celebrate by going to see **Fahrenheit 9/11** again, just to keep pissing off Karl Rove. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/14 "2004-07-08T06:27:40Z")
Once again I will ask, if it is acceptable to imprison someone with due process, why is it not acceptable to impoverish them? First offense, two years in poverty. (whatever you got, you loose, and you can’t have anything else for two years, after that, you can start over.) We give you a change of clothes, and the address of a local shelter. Your wife has a tough choice ahead of her. Second offense, lifetime in poverty. Why is this not appropriate for the likes of Kenneth Lay? Tris ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/15 "2004-07-08T06:54:10Z")
I do not see why it should be so hard to put this POS behind bars for life…Lay put his name to financial statements, annual reports, and prospectuses…which were mailed to millions of dupes/er, investors. So, just by Federal mail fraud charges alone, he should get several million years. The harm he (Lay) and his crew did is beyond calculatio…the taxpayers of California are STILL paying for what Lay and his fraudulent company did (by manipulating the energy market in California). But, why put an old man in jail? Strip him of every nickel he has, and let him live in poverty! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/16 "2004-07-08T12:47:08Z")
Poverty’s too good for him… It’s lockdown, lights out. The night watchman snores quietly. And Bubba, Kenny’s cell mate, thinks he’s awful cute… ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/17 "2004-07-08T12:49:11Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Poverty’s too good for him… > > It’s lockdown, lights out. The night watchman snores quietly. And Bubba, Kenny’s cell mate, thinks he’s awful cute… Haven’t we had enough of this shit? You should never, _never_ root for a rapist! ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/18 "2004-07-08T12:56:47Z")
Well, he surrendered this morning, the day after. Was cuffed. In the back, for everybody to see it, no coat over the hands this time. Yay. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/19 "2004-07-08T12:57:18Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Haven’t we had enough of this shit? You should never, _never_ root for a rapist! I’m not rooting for the rapist. Let’s just say that I’m not at all rooting for Ken Lay. He’s surrendered to authorities, BTW. The man in handcuffs: It’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034/20 "2004-07-08T12:59:09Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > Once again I will ask, if it is acceptable to imprison someone with due process, why is it not acceptable to impoverish them? > > First offense, two years in poverty. (whatever you got, you loose, and you can’t have anything else for two years, after that, you can start over.) We give you a change of clothes, and the address of a local shelter. Your wife has a tough choice ahead of her. > > Second offense, lifetime in poverty. > > Why is this not appropriate for the likes of Kenneth Lay? He’s already close to being there. I read an article awhile back that said Lay’s net worth had dropped from several hundred million to a few million, and that when you strip away money set aside for lawyer’s fees and the like, he’s worth less than a million. That’s a long drop, and not a lot of money when you think about it – less than a lot of workaday middle-class white-collar types have set aside when they retire. Anyway, I’m with **manny** on this: Kenny’s going away for a very not-pleasant stretch of federal time. What I find amazing is constant chorus of people on this message board and elsewhere who suggest, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, that the feds have moved with anything less than swiftness in pursuing the honchos of Enron. This isn’t a simple case, and it takes time to develop the testimony needed to secure a conviction – the standard is reasonable doubt, even for Ken Lay, and that’s a tough hurdle to jump. I wonder if all of these people barking for the feds to move faster would prefer that the prosecution move forward with a half-developed case that any reasonably competent defense lawyer could poke enough holes in to secure an acquittal. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/today-is-a-great-day-kenneth-lay-to-be-indicted/254034.md?page=2)