# Today's Example of the Religion of Peace **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929 "2016-05-28T21:40:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/41 "2016-05-29T04:01:40Z")
I guess someone should call Islam up on the phone and really let him have it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/42 "2016-05-29T05:23:00Z")
“Islam” translates to “submission”, right? So, when I _submitted_ this here post, I practiced Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/43 "2016-05-29T07:37:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Plus “But Christians do it, too!!” is the lamest of rebuttals. That’s not what the rebuttal is, actually. The point being made is condemning the entire religion (i.e, the billion or so adherents) for the atrocities perpetrated by a few people or even one person is invalid. The point is made by showing an example of someone from a different religion perpetrating a similar evil act; however, those condemning Islam are not also condemning Christianity although the two cases happen to be identical here. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/44 "2016-05-29T09:21:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Personally, I’m not seeing anything that needs rebutting. As I already said, what those folks in Egypt did was terrible. Full stop. The fact that some Christians somewhere might have done something slightly similar is irrelevant. Yeah, I don’t understand it either. It’s like, “A Nevadan committed murder!” “So? Californians commit murder, too!” ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/45 "2016-05-29T09:50:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Yeah, I don’t understand it either. It’s like, “A Nevadan committed murder!” “So? Californians commit murder, too!” I don’t see what’s so hard to get: “Nevadans suck because they KILL people!” said the man from California. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/46 "2016-05-29T10:00:50Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I don’t see what’s so hard to get: > > “Nevadans suck because they KILL people!” said the man from California. That’s not what the OP said, though. He made no mention of Christianity. Had he started this as a “Islam bad, Christianity good” thread, that would be a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/47 "2016-05-29T10:21:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That’s not what the OP said, though. He made no mention of Christianity. > Had he started this as a “Islam bad, Christianity good” thread, that would be a different matter. This is a “Islam bad, Christianity good” thread though; that’s the whole point of bringing up what some random mob did, complete with making a big deal about how it’s a \*MUSLIM!! \*mob with the “Religion of Peace” dogwhistle. If it was a Christian, Hindu or Buddhist mob did the same thing you’d likely never hear of it, except accompanied with apologia about “how you shouldn’t paint with a broad brush” and shouldn’t condemn an entire religion because of “a few bad apples”. But it’s Islam that the Christians are crusading against right now, not the others; so it gets the full demonization treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/48 "2016-05-29T10:57:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That’s not what the OP said, though. He made no mention of Christianity. It is not very hard. The OP makes a post about some village idiots in Egypt - but it is phrased to attack the entire Islamic religion - not the specific village idiots in Egypt or even the Egyptians. So it is very much like a sweeping statement - like “look what the Texans did again” for a school shooting in the Texas… It is an idiot bigotry against a whole identity group for an individual or small group action. > [@](#): > > Had he started this as a “Islam bad, Christianity good” thread, that would be a different matter. No not at all. the logical error from the bigotry is saying “Group X bad” where the group x (religion, people residing in a state) have no coherent connection to the action. the noting of some Christian doing a bad act is the highlighting that people readily know that it would be extremely stupid to sweepingly make the statement about the more familiar group, but it is the typical human bigot error to ascribe to the out-group all the evils of any single action. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/49 "2016-05-29T15:39:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m sure I’ll be going to the hell that doesn’t exist for this, but my first thought was: the High Sparrow strikes again! Makes me wonder if someone did not watch that episode and think , ya know thats not actually all that bad of an idea. Shame, shame Declan ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/50 "2016-05-29T22:34:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Plus “But Christians do it, too!!” is the lamest of rebuttals. I don’t think most people seriously dispute the difference between a self-identified Muslim or a Christian being violent while claiming it’s for their religion, and a person who happens to identify as a Muslim or Christian being violent while claiming another motivation (He bit his thumb at me!). The debate here has become skewed because it’s overwhelmingly about competition between political factions, not about addressing the situation. Is it really so surprising, when at stake in the political debate is how large groups of people end up being treated by governments and societies? Sucks all around, though. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/51 "2016-05-29T23:29:39Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Jainism might qualify. Of course, it has like five adherents… But woe betide you if you suggest it to one of the five. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/52 "2016-05-30T04:20:37Z")
The “But Christians do it too” argument is a _tu quoque_ logical fallacy - the “you too” fallacy. Also, [Whataboutism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism). ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/53 "2016-05-30T14:18:17Z")
It seems that it is against some posters’ religion to grasp the point. ---
**Author:** ![tony424](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b77776/32.png) [@tony424](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tony424)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/54 "2016-05-30T17:24:29Z")
No Religion is religion of peace especially when it comes to people that are unable to think for them self!!!REMEMBER THAT GOD DID NOT WROTE “GOOD BOOK’s MAN DID” ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/55 "2016-05-30T17:28:38Z")
Remember dog not did random text generator octagon banana ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/56 "2016-05-30T18:08:52Z")
As a dyslexic agnostic, I remain uncertain about the existence of dog. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/57 "2016-05-30T18:31:53Z")
Actually, the point of the OP was the _frequency_ (“Today’s example…”) of these horrific acts occurring in the Muslim world, by Muslims, in the name of Islam. This is what needs to be (and, of course, can’t be) rebutted. There is, simply, no comparison to Christians in the Christian world. The shame of that man in North Carolina notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/58 "2016-05-30T18:48:44Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Actually, the point of the OP was the _frequency_ (“Today’s example…”) of these horrific acts occurring in the Muslim world, by Muslims, in the name of Islam. > > This is what needs to be (and, of course, can’t be) rebutted. > > There is, simply, no comparison to Christians in the Christian world. The shame of that man in North Carolina notwithstanding. Selection bias is a harsh mistress. ---
**Author:** ![AtomThought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@AtomThought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomThought)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/59 "2016-05-30T20:27:18Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Actually, the point of the OP was the _frequency_ (“Today’s example…”) of these horrific acts occurring in the Muslim world, by Muslims, in the name of Islam. > > This is what needs to be (and, of course, can’t be) rebutted. > > There is, simply, no comparison to Christians in the Christian world. The shame of that man in North Carolina notwithstanding. There probably is a higher frequency of horrific acts occurring in the Muslim world compared to the Christian world. But the problem is not Islam, and the problem is not Muslims. So insulting the religion itself or its followers is just asinine. The problem is the kind of culture that many of the Muslims belong to in much of the Muslim world. Christians in the Christian world used to commit horrible acts in the name of Christianity much more frequently as well, now it happens far less often. The cultures of the Christian world changed. Most followers of Islam don’t commit horrific acts, just like most Christians don’t commit horrific acts. If there is something inherently worse about Islam than there is about Christianity, why aren’t most of its followers committing horrific acts? Both Muslims and Christians can and do ignore the bad parts of their holy text and behave according to the good parts. A follower of Islam is no more inherently bad than a follower of Christianity. Hating and demonizing Islam itself now isn’t going to change things any more than if you hated and condemned Christianity itself when the Christian world was going on Crusades and Inquisitioning all the time. What one can do, however, is not lump millions of peaceful Muslims in with those that do horrible things, which is what people tend to do far too often these days. ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929/60 "2016-05-31T01:00:06Z")
> [@AtomThought](#): > > There probably is a higher frequency of horrific acts occurring in the Muslim world compared to the Christian world. But the problem is not Islam, and the problem is not Muslims. So insulting the religion itself or its followers is just asinine. The problem is the kind of culture that many of the Muslims belong to in much of the Muslim world. Christians in the Christian world used to commit horrible acts in the name of Christianity much more frequently as well, now it happens far less often. The cultures of the Christian world changed. Why is blaming culture any different than blaming religion? Both cultures and religions change. What is the culture that “many of the Muslims in much of the Muslim world” have that is unrelated to or unaffected by religion? > [@](#): > > Most followers of Islam don’t commit horrific acts, just like most Christians don’t commit horrific acts. Terrorism and crime aren’t the only forms of violence that exist. Every society has normalized violence that is structurally perpetuated, excused, justified by individuals, communities, and governments. Most American Christians pre-1860 supported governments that supported slavery. Human rights abusing rulers in many countries wouldn’t be able to hold power if they were actively opposed by their country’s Christians or Muslims. Even things like domestic violence that gets hidden and tacitly excused. The world is a violent place and no one has their hands clean. > [@](#): > > If there is something inherently worse about Islam than there is about Christianity, why aren’t most of its followers committing horrific acts? You have a point and it’s useless to get into a pissing match counting up violent acts, but different societies at different times exhibit different trends in violence that are affected differently by religious and cultural factors. Christianity isn’t absent in the structural forces that drive violence in America, but it plays a different role than it does in, say, Russia. It also plays roles in addressing violence in those same places. Same with Islam. Concluding ‘Muslims/Christians here are doing this but Muslims/Christians there are not, therefore religion must not be the problem’ is just another way of monolithizing religion that handcuffs analysis. > [@](#): > > Both Muslims and Christians can and do ignore the bad parts of their holy text and behave according to the good parts. A follower of Islam is no more inherently bad than a follower of Christianity. No one is more inherently bad than another, I agree, but no one approaches a religious text with a blank slate. They will have had a lifetime of both shared and unique influences that will push them to think one way or another. They are born into cultures. It doesn’t mean they don’t make individual decisions or go against the grain, but it’s not like they randomly pick and choose what is good and bad either. > [@](#): > > Hating and demonizing Islam itself now isn’t going to change things any more than if you hated and condemned Christianity itself when the Christian world was going on Crusades and Inquisitioning all the time. What one can do, however, is not lump millions of peaceful Muslims in with those that do horrible things, which is what people tend to do far too often these days. Hating and demonizing a religion is usually unhelpful because religions (in addition to groups of people, as you rightly note) aren’t fixed monoliths, not because they have nothing to do with violence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-example-of-the-religion-of-peace/755929.md?page=4)