# Today's Lesson: Context matters (Canadian edition) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370 "2011-09-15T04:04:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/21 "2011-09-15T15:08:00Z")
Dear York University Jewish Advocacy Group: I recently read an article somewhere, I don’t remember where, because I wasn’t paying much attention. Anyway, I didn’t read the whole thing, but in there somewhere it quoted a York University Student, one Sarah Grunfeld, as saying: 'Jews should be sterilized’ Now I don’t know if she was quoting someone, or what the context was (because I didn’t read the whole article, and I was looking out the window at the time), but I think her comments were offensive. She said these words. I think you should issue a press release trying to get her thrown out of the University. Of course, you don’t need to look into this further - just take my word for it, since I think I saw this quote somewhere. Anyway, she’s probably not even really Jewish. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/22 "2011-09-15T15:09:34Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Dear York University Jewish Advocacy Group: > > 'Jews should be sterilized’ > Thank you. Reported. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/23 "2011-09-15T15:11:10Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Remember, though, that I also use actual cases that have been decided by Human Rights tribunals and the courts, which contain plenty of nasty epithets and other unpleasantries in their recitations of the facts. After discussing these decisions, and seeing some students’ jaws drop at my descriptions of the facts in the cases, it just seems best to give the students a break by using “Martians” in a hypothetical. Besides, I don’t want them so shocked and uncomfortable that they cannot concentrate on the question posed in the hypothetical, and thus, cannot subsequently discuss it. Fair enough. That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/24 "2011-09-15T15:19:19Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > She’s an idiot and everyone knows it. Yeah. I thought Jews were supposed to be crafty! ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/25 "2011-09-15T15:22:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > AND she gets sterilized! > > Ooops, too far. No, that seems about right. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/26 "2011-09-15T15:31:41Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > While I can describe actual human rights decisions and court decisions using their original facts–let’s face it, these decisions are public–hypotheticals, such as the professor in the OP tried, present the same problem he encountered. My solution to this problem is to simply use “Martians” as the target group: “All Martians should be sterilized,” to apply my solution to the professor’s statement. So far, no Martians have complained. 🙂 While that’s fine so far as it avoids offending anyone, it also fails to accomplish the intended goal. I mean, the point is to distinguish between dangerous statements and offensive statements, and I doubt anyone in your classes is overly protective of Martian reproductive rights… ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/27 "2011-09-15T15:54:26Z")
The intended goal is to get the point across to the students, which will not be accomplished if the students get too distracted by the inflammatory words. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/28 "2011-09-15T16:20:35Z")
So go with, “racial group X” or something. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/29 "2011-09-15T16:55:37Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The intended goal is to get the point across to the students, which will not be accomplished if the students get too distracted by the inflammatory words. I get that, i guess, but it seems to me that being part of an intellectual environment should involve learning how to think critically and logically even when the words or the ideas themselves are offensive or inflammatory. For example, i think it’s worth taking some effort to make sure students understand that, as offensive as the word might be, there are incredibly important differences between using the word “nigger” in a discussion of, say, Mark Twain’s writing, and using it to actually describe a black person. Similarly, there’s an important difference between offering “All Jews should be sterilized” as a personal opinion, and offering it as an example of a historical idea that has had incredibly destructive results. If students can’t or won’t make these distinctions, then we might as well close down the universities, because this is precisely the sort of critical and contextual thinking that institutions of higher education should be teaching. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/30 "2011-09-15T17:05:06Z")
Oh, Christ, take a look at the student’s media statement about the whole event. I’m quoting the whole thing because a media release is, by definition, designed to be circulated, and because the release itself says that it is only to be used in its entirety: > [@](#): > > I stand by my initial concern brought to the University’s attention immediately after the incident that when Professor Cameron Johnston made the abhorrent statement in his class that all Jews should be sterilized, he failed to qualify the statement clearly as an unacceptable opinion held by others. His delivery of this statement, made in a class of 450 impressionable students, was offensive to me and to others in the room. > > ``` > I have since been grossly misquoted and ridiculed by the media, and attempts have been made to assign blame to me with the false claim that I simply "misheard" or "half heard" what was said. Meanwhile, the professor has not been called to account in any way for his "miscommunication". > > This is in spite of the fact that in a meeting with Martin Singer, Dean, (Faculty of Liberal Arts & Professional Studies at York) and Rhonda Lenton (Vice Provost Academic), I was assured that they believed Professor Johnston was 'terribly regretful', and that they expected and would encourage him to issue an unambiguous in-class apology. I have not heard even minimal expressions of regret by Professor Johnston, and a York university representative in subsequent communications with the media, has since contradicted the assurances I was given to that effect. > > It has been a very painful experience for me to see how the university has closed ranks and reneged on its assurances to me. I understand that there may have been a miscommunication, but any miscommunication was on the part of the professor, not me. The media has been complicit in allowing a false interpretation of my actions to be circulated widely, which can only have a chilling effect on the ability of students to have any kind of a voice on campus. > > END OF STUDENT STATEMENT > > ``` From [here](http://gawker.com/5840591/dumb-student-who-accused-jewish-prof-of-anti+semitism-i-am-the-victim-here). ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/31 "2011-09-15T17:11:30Z")
I sure hope this ignorant moron never visits the Holocaust museum in DC. Their displays of anti Semitic propaganda will make her head explode! I’m seriously caught up in this story, especially reading the follow up statements that she and some Jewish organizations have put out. I have this terrible need to find out that this girl has suffered some real consequences for her actions, especially after doubling and tripling down as she has. I guess I really abhor aggressive stupidity, the kind of stupid that not only starts out stupid, but attacks the non-stupid, is incapable of monitoring or checking the stupid when red flags should be going up, and which runs the very real risk of causing havoc and doing harm. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/32 "2011-09-15T17:15:09Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > It’s a York University student. :rolleyes: How does that rhyme go? “If you can use a fork you can get into York.” Not particularly clever and yet somehow apropos. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/33 "2011-09-15T17:22:33Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > So if you’re a potential employer and you research this student’s name and it leads you to this article about how she tried to get someone fired because she misunderstood what he said… would you hire her? Oh, HELL no. I could see her firing off a civil suit the first time someone refers to a boiler as “she,” because it would marginalize all women, everywhere, throughout history. And yes I do research every person I interview to see what they say. It’s stunning what they’ll put in their blogs or facebook accounts - thinking no one will ever find out that they “hate niggers” or “OMFG i say a ghey get kicked it was rotflll!” or “girl, you KNOWZ I likes to do some BLOW at lunch!” :rolleyes: I found one person who posted in their facebook account the day before they interviewed that they thought a) my company sucked but they might “settle” for a job here, and b) they hoped no one checked their personal references because one of them was fake. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/34 "2011-09-15T17:26:25Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I found one person who posted in their facebook account the day before they interviewed that they thought a) my company sucked but they might “settle” for a job here, and b) they hoped no one checked their personal references because one of them was fake. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: **PLEEEEEASE** tell me you brought this up in the interview and what their response was. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/35 "2011-09-15T17:30:10Z")
Okay, I took some solace in reading Twitter comments on the matter. Some are suggesting that Grunfeld should be turned into a verb, meaning something like “to dramatically over-react to one’s own stupid misunderstanding.” For instance, Emily Littella was a character on SNL who, when confronted with the fact that she had once again grunfelded, would simply say, “Never mind.” ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/36 "2011-09-15T17:33:27Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Oh, HELL no. I could see her firing off a civil suit the first time someone refers to a boiler as “she,” because it would marginalize all women, everywhere, throughout history. > > And yes I do research every person I interview to see what they say. It’s stunning what they’ll put in their blogs or facebook accounts - thinking no one will ever find out that they “hate niggers” or “OMFG i say a ghey get kicked it was rotflll!” or “girl, you KNOWZ I likes to do some BLOW at lunch!” :rolleyes: I found one person who posted in their facebook account the day before they interviewed that they thought a) my company sucked but they might “settle” for a job here, and b) they hoped no one checked their personal references because one of them was fake. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Sometimes what people say or do on the internet is not really indicative of how they act in real life, or on the job. Of course, if someone is openly bashing your company before interviewing, that’s another thing alltogether, heheh. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/37 "2011-09-15T17:40:41Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Oh, Christ, take a look at the student’s media statement about the whole event. I’m quoting the whole thing because a media release is, by definition, designed to be circulated, and because the release itself says that it is only to be used in its entirety:From [here](http://gawker.com/5840591/dumb-student-who-accused-jewish-prof-of-anti+semitism-i-am-the-victim-here). She seems to enjoy being a git. So, she’s saying she’s been improperly ridiculed by the media only because she thought University officials had told her the professor had erred. So, she adds no argument to the cluelessness of her reporting but hides behind “Authorities” that showed how cowardly they can be, a first time for her benefit, and a second time, against her. Some people should be sterilized. Her folks, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/38 "2011-09-15T17:41:06Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I get that, i guess, but it seems to me that being part of an intellectual environment should involve learning how to think critically and logically even when the words or the ideas themselves are offensive or inflammatory. > > For example, i think it’s worth taking some effort to make sure students understand that, as offensive as the word might be, there are incredibly important differences between using the word “nigger” in a discussion of, say, Mark Twain’s writing, and using it to actually describe a black person. Similarly, there’s an important difference between offering “All Jews should be sterilized” as a personal opinion, and offering it as an example of a historical idea that has had incredibly destructive results. > > If students can’t or won’t make these distinctions, then we might as well close down the universities, because this is precisely the sort of critical and contextual thinking that institutions of higher education should be teaching. Baby steps. Kids fresh out of high school need to be weened into critical thinking. That the woman who made the complaint was a senior undergraduate speaks volumes about the critical thinking skills that she did not develop during university. ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/39 "2011-09-15T17:49:23Z")
This idiocy reminds me of the 2008 case in which an employee of Indiana University was accused of racial harassment because he was reading a book about how Notre Dame students successfully overcame the local KKK in 1924. Summary of the case here: [Newsdesk | The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression](http://thefire.org/index.php/article/9017.html) The 50ish campus janitor was an avid reader who read books on his break time. One day he was reading the critically acclaimed _Notre Dame vs. the Klan: How the Fighting Irish Defeated the Ku Klux Klan._ A shop steward told Sampson that reading a book about the KKK was like bringing pornography to work and then another co-worker remarked that she found the KKK offensive. Sampson, the janitor, tried to explain what the book was really about but they refused to listen. A racial harassment charge was filed and the university reprimanded Sampson, saying “You demonstrated disdain and insensitivity to your coworkers who repeatedly requested that you refrain from reading the book which has such an inflammatory and offensive topic in their presence…you used extremely poor judgment by insisting on openly reading the book related to a historically and racially abhorrent subject in the presence of your Black coworkers.” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370/40 "2011-09-15T17:51:06Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > She seems to enjoy being a git. So, she’s saying she’s been improperly ridiculed by the media only because she thought University officials had told her the professor had erred. So, she adds no argument to the cluelessness of her reporting but hides behind “Authorities” that showed how cowardly they can be, a first time for her benefit, and a second time, against her. > > Some people should be sterilized. Her folks, presumably. what makes you for a moment think that it’s safe to trust this girl’s characterization of her conversation with third parties? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/todays-lesson-context-matters-canadian-edition/596370.md?page=3)