# Toe the line; NOT tow the line **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547 "2010-12-17T19:21:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzero)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/41 "2010-12-23T15:28:52Z")
It really is “tow the line.” [Tow (like ‘cow’ with a ‘t’ in place of the ‘c’) is a bundle of fibers.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tow) It came from the textile industry. Towing means bundling. Towing the line means getting bunched with the other fibers. It’s similar to the Japanese expression that ‘the nail which sticks up will be hammered down.’ OK. I can’t go through with it. That is complete fiction. It’s sort of believable though - right? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/42 "2010-12-23T17:35:36Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > They look like thumbs to me, too–the band’s name is Toe Fat, so who knows? [Hijack] That’s a toe. Whose thumb has those proportions, that short with that much width? [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/43 "2010-12-24T16:56:37Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I believe the expression should be “Toe the line.” I believe it goes back to the day of bare knuckle boxing, or fighting, where a line would be drawn or scratched in the dirt and the two fighters would be required to stand facing each other with their toes against the line. At a signal, they would commence thrashing each other until one or the other was knocked off his feet or out of the ring or wherever; that would signal the ending of a round. After a rest, the fighters were again required to “toe the line” or to stand facing each other again with their toes against the line. If a man was unable to “toe the line,” he was declared the loser of the fight. See that’s the problem with amateur etymology, I’m not sure your speculations quite work either. I’ve always viewed “toe the line” as an equivalent of “to obey”. As others have noted, it would seem to have its origins in any establishment, military or otherwise with a big old line on the floor and the subsequent need to have your toes on said line lest you conjure up the wrath of the highers-up. In your citation from bare-knuckled brawling, the term seems to serve as an _en garde_ call or something like “fighters step up” -baseball’s equivalent would be an ump hollering “Play ball!” Even with its use to signal a fighter’s inability to continue it seems a more convoluted stretch for that to lead to the term’s present day usage. Just respectfully disagreeing, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/44 "2010-12-25T10:03:36Z")
When I was small I always heard “Toe the mark” so it was clearer to me that way ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/45 "2010-12-25T12:49:55Z")
I wait with baited breath to see how this thread will turn out. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/46 "2010-12-25T16:11:34Z")
The correct expression is “Toe the line.” Everyone had better begin using the correct expression correctly or something bad will happen. I don’t know what, though. **Merry Christmas to all y’all.** ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/47 "2010-12-25T17:08:01Z")
Additionally, mic - shortened for microphone mike - proper noun, diminutive of Michael (improperly left uncapitalized) ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/48 "2010-12-25T17:19:01Z")
Hell, I always thought the phrase _was_ “tow the line,” as in _pull yer f_ckin’ weight\*, or “tow the party line.” Consider me a tick smarter now. Tripler Merry christmas y’all. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/49 "2011-01-08T02:51:28Z")
Okay, this should settle the issue for the unbelievers: Last night I had a strange compulsion to see Debra Winger naked one more time so I watched _An Officer and a Gentleman_. In one scene, Louis Gossett, Jr orders a bunch of officer candidates to Fall In! Put your toes on the white line! I rest my case. Debra Winger is a fox. Seeing her was worth watching the movie. The toes on the line part was just a bonus, ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/50 "2011-01-08T04:20:31Z")
A wide belt worn with a tuxedo is a cummerbund. Yep, it’s spelled and pronounced that way. Is it just a Southeast U.S. thing to call a lectern a podium? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/51 "2011-01-08T04:50:27Z")
Palate, palette, pallet - why is it so hard to keep them straight? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/52 "2011-01-08T05:15:47Z")
I would like to point out that if you have a bunch of line that needs moving, it is much easier to **Tow the line** than it would be to push it. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/53 "2011-01-08T09:47:19Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I would like to point out that if you have a bunch of line that needs moving, it is much easier to **Tow the line** than it would be to push it. I would think it would be much easier to pick it up and carry it. ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/54 "2011-01-08T13:36:57Z")
When people use “that begs the question” instead of “that raises the question” is what always irks me. > **[Begging the question](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begs_the_question#Modern_usage)** > > In classical rhetoric and logic, begging the question or assuming the conclusion (Latin: petitio principii) is an informal fallacy that occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion. A question-begging inference is valid, in the sense that the conclusion is as true as the premise, but it is not a valid argument. > For example, the statement "wool sweaters are superior to nylon jackets because wool sweaters have higher wool content" begs the question because this statement... I can understand why people make the error though. “Beg” seems like a fairly natural synonym for “raise”. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547/55 "2011-01-08T14:12:31Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I think you mean “intensive purposes.” He means “four intense porpoises.” They are a serious bunch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toe-the-line-not-tow-the-line/564547.md?page=2)