# Toilet Paper: "Double Roll"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 23, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975 "2016-03-23T20:01:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/1 "2016-03-23T20:01:30Z")
Okay, in my 50 years on Earth, every roll of household toilet paper I’ve ever seen is the same size. Standardized, if you will, to fit every toilet paper holder.
So why does almost every brand advertise itself as being “double roll, twice as much as regular rolls”?
And if every brand is “double roll”, who the hell are they contrasting themselves with?
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### Author:  [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/2 "2016-03-23T20:17:02Z")
I started to say they are comparing themselves with the standard, but yeah Double Cottonelle is not 2x the standard.
Cottonelle 165 1-Ply sheets per roll
[ ](http://www.staples-3p.com/s7/is/image/Staples/s0972572_sc7?%24splssku%24)
Cottonelle Double Roll 208 1-Ply sheets per roll
[http://www.walmart.com/ip/Cottonelle-Clean-Care-Bathroom-Tissue-Double-Rolls-208-Sheets-24-Rolls/24491241](http://www.walmart.com/ip/Cottonelle-Clean-Care-Bathroom-Tissue-Double-Rolls-208-Sheets-24-Rolls/24491241)
Cottonelle Mega Roll 380 1-Ply sheets per roll
[http://www.walmart.com/ip/Cottonelle-Clean-Care-Mega-Roll-Toilet-Paper-380-sheets-12-rolls/49883726](http://www.walmart.com/ip/Cottonelle-Clean-Care-Mega-Roll-Toilet-Paper-380-sheets-12-rolls/49883726)
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### Author:  [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/3 "2016-03-23T20:26:38Z")
Keep in mind that if a double roll is defined as twice as many sheets, it will only be slightly larger in diameter than the normal roll. As the roll gets larger, each layer gets longer. Someone else can do the math but a double roll will not be double the diameter. You might not notice a difference unless they were side by side.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/4 "2016-03-23T20:36:16Z")
> [@gigi](#):
>
> I started to say they are comparing themselves with the standard, but yeah Double Cottonelle is not 2x the standard.
>
> Cottonelle 165 1-Ply sheets per roll
> [http://www.staples-3p.com/s7/is/image/Staples/s0972572\_sc7?$splssku$](http://www.staples-3p.com/s7/is/image/Staples/s0972572_sc7?$splssku$)
>
> Cottonelle Double Roll 208 1-Ply sheets per roll
> [Robot or human?](http://www.walmart.com/ip/Cottonelle-Clean-Care-Bathroom-Tissue-Double-Rolls-208-Sheets-24-Rolls/24491241)
>
> Cottonelle Mega Roll 380 1-Ply sheets per roll
> [Robot or human?](http://www.walmart.com/ip/Cottonelle-Clean-Care-Mega-Roll-Toilet-Paper-380-sheets-12-rolls/49883726)
Depends on how you measure. Zoom in on the labels and you’ll see
Cottonelle 165 1-ply sheets = 231 sq. ft.
Cottonelle Double Roll 208 1-ply sheets = 525.6 sq. ft.
Cottonelle Mega Roll 380 1-ply sheets = 481.2 sq. ft.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/5 "2016-03-23T20:48:51Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#):
>
> Okay, in my 50 years on Earth, every roll of household toilet paper I’ve ever seen is the same size. Standardized, if you will, to fit every toilet paper holder.
“Double rolls” aside, [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper#Description) claims
> [@](#):
>
> Manufactured toilet paper sheet in the United States was sized 4 1/2" x 4 1/2". Since 1999 the size of a sheet has been shrinking; Kimberly-Clark reduced the length of a sheet to 4.1". Scott, in 2006, reduced the length of their product to 3.7". The width of sheets was later reduced giving a general sheet size of 3.7" long and 4.1" wide. Larger sizes remain available. This variability in size has resulted in some issues with toilet paper dispensers.
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### Author:  [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/6 "2016-03-23T20:54:21Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> Depends on how you measure. Zoom in on the labels and you’ll see
>
> Cottonelle 165 1-ply sheets = 231 sq. ft.
>
> Cottonelle Double Roll 208 1-ply sheets = 525.6 sq. ft.
>
> Cottonelle Mega Roll 380 1-ply sheets = 481.2 sq. ft.
Those are for all rolls in the pack.
Cottonelle 165 1-ply sheets = 231 sq. ft./12 rolls **19 sq ft/roll**
Cottonelle Double Roll 208 1-ply sheets = 525.6 sq. ft./24 rolls \*\* 21.9 sq ft/roll\*\*
Cottonelle Mega Roll 380 1-ply sheets = 481.2 sq. ft./12 rolls **40.1 sq ft /roll**
There are about nine sheets per square foot.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/7 "2016-03-23T21:10:43Z")
I’m not really that concerned if the comparison might be slightly exaggerated, as long as “double roll” means “way bigger than standard” which, as pointed out, would be only slightly larger diameter. The fewer roll changes, the better.
Interestingly the last couple of batches of Cashmere 2-ply I got on sale claim 30 rolls to be equal to 50 “normal” rolls, not 60, so they’re either making them smaller now or have suddenly had an attack of honesty.
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### Author:  [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/8 "2016-03-23T21:11:38Z")
The larger rolls are noticeably larger in diameter, but not greatly. Some of them do fit rather tightly into some dispensers. OTOH, as noted above, rolls are getting gradually narrower over the years.
Ultimately, the length of the rolls increases towards infinity, while the width decreases towards zero. We studied a mathematical model like this in Differential Equations. It’s called the [Dirac Delta Function](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_delta_function).
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### Author:  [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/9 "2016-03-23T22:16:38Z")
> [@Senegoid](#):
>
> Ultimately, the length of the rolls increases towards infinity, while the width decreases towards zero.
So at some point we’ll be using several yards of thin string. I can’t wait. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/10 "2016-03-23T22:17:09Z")
I always divide the price by the square feet listed on the package and buy whatever comes out to the lowest cents per square foot. The 1000 sheet/roll brands win, and you can sure tell it by the weight of the package.
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### Author:  [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/11 "2016-03-23T23:18:36Z")
The core size makes a difference too:
> [@](#):
>
> Sainsbury’s is trying a radical approach as it attempts to reduce the environmental impact of transporting toilet rolls to its stores.
>
> The supermarket chain is shrinking the diameter of the cardboard tubes inside its own-brand toilet paper.
>
> Each roll will be 11 millimetres slimmer – 112mm instead of 123mm – while the number of sheets will remain as 240.
>
> Sainsbury’s is shrinking the diameter of the cardboard tubes inside its own-brand toilet paper
>
> Sainsbury’s is shrinking the diameter of the cardboard tubes inside its own-brand toilet paper (not pictured)
>
> With each Briton getting through an average of 50 toilet rolls a year, supplying it involves huge costs and has a big impact on the environment.
> Sainsbury’s claims the move will avoid 500 annual lorry trips from suppliers to stores and save 140 tons of carbon dioxide.
>
> Read more: [Why your loo roll will be getting smaller: Sainsbury's cuts size in an attempt to reduce environmental impact | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133643/Why-loo-roll-getting-smaller-Sainsburys-cuts-size-attempt-reduce-environmental-impact.html#ixzz43lraFOMM)
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### Author:  [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/12 "2016-03-23T23:26:26Z")
> [@bob\_2](#):
>
> The core size makes a difference too:
Kimberly-Clark (the makers of Kleenex brand products) is going a step farther: They are [eliminating the core altogether in their “Scott Naturals” brand of toilet paper](http://www.jsonline.com/business/when-you-gotta-go-toilet-paper-maker-ditches-the-tube-b99337680z1-272647141.html).
Fun fact: The article claims that 17 billion toilet paper cores are thrown away each year!
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/13 "2016-03-24T02:45:14Z")
The biggest difference is compared to the 2-ply rolls. For the same bulk, you can indeed get twice as many sheets on a 1-ply roll as on a 2-ply roll. Probably more than twice, since the 2-ply are usually quilted, too, so they won’t roll as tightly.
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### Author:  [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/14 "2016-03-24T02:53:52Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#):
>
> Kimberly-Clark (the makers of Kleenex brand products) is going a step farther: They are [eliminating the core altogether in their “Scott Naturals” brand of toilet paper](http://www.jsonline.com/business/when-you-gotta-go-toilet-paper-maker-ditches-the-tube-b99337680z1-272647141.html).
And thereby, incidentally, finally extinguishing a SDMB meme that the mods have been trying to stamp out for a long time.
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### Author:  [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/15 "2016-03-24T02:58:35Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#):
>
> So at some point we’ll be using several yards of thin string. I can’t wait. :rolleyes:
This explains the popularity of thong underwear. It is being pushed by the toilet paper manufacturers.
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### Author:  [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2016, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/16 "2016-03-24T04:49:43Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#):
>
> This explains the popularity of thong underwear. It is being pushed by the toilet paper manufacturers.
Bidets are the ultimate goal, with monthly “residuals” paid to Kimberly-Clark, Scott, etc.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/17 "2016-03-24T14:31:34Z")
One of the ways they make Charmin, _et al_, so squeezable is by wrapping the paper loosely on the roll. Which means less linear feet for the same outside diameter.
Funny how their costs are driven by linear feet, but many people buy by visual size thinking that bigger = more.
There’s no chance that’s a deliberate attempt to mislead… is it :eek: ?
My take on “double roll” is that there was some more or less industry standard roll size back in 1962 that the first double rolls truly doubled. Since then every roll is labeled double or bigger regardless of reality.
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### Author:  [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/18 "2016-03-24T14:37:05Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#):
>
> Keep in mind that if a double roll is defined as twice as many sheets, it will only be slightly larger in diameter than the normal roll. As the roll gets larger, each layer gets longer. Someone else can do the math but a double roll will not be double the diameter. You might not notice a difference unless they were side by side.
If one assumes that the number of sheets is proportional to the area of the side surface of the roll (which I think is a reasonable assumption as long as all sheets have the same width and length), then a roll with twice as many sheets would have a diameter which is bigger by a factor of the square root of 2, i.e., about 1.41, since the area grows with the square of the radius.
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### Author:  [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/19 "2016-03-24T14:58:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> My take on “double roll” is that there was some more or less industry standard roll size back in 1962 that the first double rolls truly doubled. Since then every roll is labeled double or bigger regardless of reality.
You can still get single rolls, if you buy the cheap stuff. It’s noticeably narrower in diameter. There’s also triple rolls and “jumbo” rolls or whatever they call them, that are noticeably larger than the double rolls. There may have been an industry standard back in the day, but there clearly isn’t now, with TP not only varying in number of sheets, quilting, diameter, but also width and as mentioned above, inner diameter too (when they remove the cardboard tube).
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### Author:  [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toilet-paper-double-roll/749975/20 "2016-03-24T15:57:04Z")
> [@Schnitte](#):
>
> If one assumes that the number of sheets is proportional to the area of the side surface of the roll (which I think is a reasonable assumption as long as all sheets have the same width and length), then a roll with twice as many sheets would have a diameter which is bigger by a factor of the square root of 2, i.e., about 1.41, since the area grows with the square of the radius.
Not such a great assumption as there is typically a hole down the axis of the cylinder, a tube made of cardboard that is uniform for single or double rolls.
If the hole at the core scaled with size then root two along with the paper then the math would still make sense; instead, the volume of the cardboard tube is constant and only the paper volume is doubled. As the total volume of the (hole+paper) cylinder is less then doubled, the diameter change is less than a factor of root 2.
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