# Toiltet seat down!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 30, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711 "2007-12-30T17:33:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/41 "2007-12-31T21:17:06Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] … just sit your ass down and tuck the little feller in, boys! [/QUOTE] I am still trying not to open the door. I am perfectly willing to address women with the proper honorific “Ms.” I will not ogle cleavage, however invitingly displayed, except to closely examine a necklace, locket, or other embellishment in order to phrase an appropriate compliment. I have come to accept that it is somewhat old-fashioned to prefer effeminate women. But I’m _damned_ if I’ll squat to pee! ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/42 "2007-12-31T22:17:47Z")
\>Toilet lid down should be the default. Why on earth does anyone need to look at an open toilet? Why on earth does anyone need to look at tree bark? Most people don’t, but we don’t hide that, do we? This strikes me as an odd criterion. But I agree having the lid down is a little nicer - you don’t see dirt and can’t accidentally drop things in there that way. But I’ve muddled on somehow when others don’t get this one right. Since I use the seat in both positions, I have opportunity to stumble into a dark bathroom to sit down without using the lights. Turns out you can feel for the seat with your hand before committing your butt. It’s news to me that these things wouldn’t be true for everybody. Expecting the seat to always be kept down is a bit self-important, I opine, excepting the very understandable example somebody gave for helping Grandma avoid accidents. ---
**Author:** ![Barrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Barrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrington)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/43 "2007-12-31T22:26:54Z")
[QUOTE=Waenara] I figure seat down is the better default configuration because women always need the seat down (for #1 or #2), and men need the seat down for #2. Therefore, 3 out of 4 possible uses for the toilet require the seat to be down. It’s just more efficient to leave it where it’s more often needed to be. [/QUOTE] That mathematics assumes some facts not in evidence: 1. That men and women are evenly balanced in the household population and the time they spend in the household 2. That men use the toilet for defecation/urination in equal numbers of visits 3. That men and women have the same mean time between visits to the toilet for any purpose 4. That visits to the toilet are evenly spaced throughout the same times of day, among all members of the household If any of those axioms are not true, your 3-out-of-4 just ain’t gonna happen. And, in my anecdotal experience at least, none of them is true. Anyway, as other men have said, in this thread and many others on many other forums, it’s not very easy for most men to pee sitting down on a flat surface. Nothing much to do with the external organ - minds out of the gutters, ladies! - but to do with the internal tubing, which is kind of crammed when in a seated position. I’m certainly not alone in spending time seated on the toilet doing the #2, finishing the job, standing up and only then having the urge for #1. For what it’s worth, I vote for leaving it the way I used it. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/44 "2007-12-31T23:38:28Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] But I’m _damned_ if I’ll squat to pee! [/QUOTE] Okay, then please invent some sort of standing elimination station that WORKS for men and that can fit in a home bathroom and be affordable. [grumble, grumble]…can put a m’f’kin man on the moon but can’t invent a f’kin toilet that keeps the urine inside when men pee…[/grumble, grumble] ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/45 "2008-01-01T00:01:57Z")
[QUOTE=Barrington] That mathematics assumes some facts not in evidence: 1. That men and women are evenly balanced in the household population and the time they spend in the household 2. That men use the toilet for defecation/urination in equal numbers of visits 3. That men and women have the same mean time between visits to the toilet for any purpose 4. That visits to the toilet are evenly spaced throughout the same times of day, among all members of the household If any of those axioms are not true, your 3-out-of-4 just ain’t gonna happen. And, in my anecdotal experience at least, none of them is true. [/QUOTE] 1. I did add a big caveat at the end of my post which you didn’t quote, saying that I adjust my expectations if the household in question is mostly male or mostly female. As for time spent in the household by gender, of course it varies in different households, but on average as a rule of thumb probably women spend more time in the household (as more households have stay-at-home moms than dads). 2. Men **and** women probably don’t use the toilet for defecation/urination in equal numbers. Of course, this also varies by individual. WAG, assume the average person defecates once per day and urinates three times per day, and assume that the household is half men and half women; then 62.5% of the time the seat needed to be down. 3. and 4. I don’t see these points as being hugely relevant. I guess if a husband was the last one to use the toilet in the morning and he knows that no one else will use it before he does when he gets home from work then it wouldn’t matter if he leaves the seat up in between. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/46 "2008-01-01T00:57:29Z")
I may be wrong, and I know I’m inviting attack, but I think I’ve heard all the reasons\* women give for making a big deal out of this and it still seems like an excuse to get your victim card on the table. \*excepting the little old person in the house ---
**Author:** ![Shera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Shera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shera)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/47 "2008-01-01T01:28:06Z")
[This](http://www.webmd.com/solutions/stop_cold_germs/bathroom-bugs) is why I always put the seat _and lid_ down after I go to the bathroom, but before I flush. The thought of brushing my teeth with fecal matter kind of disgusts me. > [@](#): > > Always flush with the lid down. > According to Charles Gerba, PhD, a professor of microbiology at University of Arizona in Tucson, flushing the toilet with the lid up is not wise. “Polluted water vapor erupts out of the flushing toilet bowl and it can take several hours for these particles to finally settle – not to mention where,” he says. “If you have your toothbrush too close to the toilet, you are brushing your teeth with what’s in your toilet.” ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/48 "2008-01-01T16:35:31Z")
\>It’s just more efficient to leave it where it’s more often needed to be. If by efficient you mean requiring the least effort, then it’s most efficient to leave the seat in whichever position you used it. If two sequential uses require different positions, somebody has to move the seat between the uses, so there’s no way to minimize movements between different position uses below one movement. However, if two sequential uses require the same position, the “leave it where it is” strategy minimizes movements to zero. Any other strategy will sometimes produce more than one movement between uses. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/49 "2008-01-01T21:33:04Z")
[QUOTE=sandra\_nz] Have you ever gone to the loo in the middle of the night, sans lights, and sat on the seatless bowl? [/QUOTE] Yes I have. For the lid down crowd… have you ever sat down in the middle of a dark night and had your “boys” slap down hard on the lid when you didn’t expect it? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/50 "2008-01-01T22:42:47Z")
[QUOTE=Waenara] I also adjust my expectations depending on who lives in the house. [/QUOTE] I’m glad of that. The only time I ever felt raw about this controversy is when a female-type person moved into an existing household of three men, and immediately started Bringing The Law with regard to seat position. Whenever she found it up, she would come at us with over-the-top _outrage_. The sense of entitlement she had - that _of course_ the seat should be lifted and returned each time anyone else in the house needed to pee, so that she needn’t lower it herself, ever. _Of course_ her three roommates should bear the responsibility of making sure that her ass never touched cold porcelain. Not only did it make perfect sense to set it up so that about _six times_ the necessary time and energy went into arranging the toilet seat, but it was perfectly clear that there simply was _no other possible alternative._ These days I’m in the “lid down” camp. Have you noticed, by the way, that it’s pretty much only women that think that a toilet lid is improved by the addition of a fluffy cover, such that it has to be _held_ in the “up” position if you want to avoid it falling mid-slash, conveniently absorbing a small percentage of the hot urine that’s splashing all over the damned place? Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/51 "2008-01-01T23:23:22Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] In real estate the rule is lid and seat down. I don’t need to post a photo of an open toilet seat. Looks awful. [/QUOTE] I wish the guys who lived in the apartment we inspected had known this. Their toilet had the seat up and pungent urine not only in the bowl but dotting the rim. The agent was mortified. Also I’m the same as **Shera** ; lid down before flushing. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/52 "2008-01-02T01:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] Have you noticed, by the way, that it’s pretty much only women that think that a toilet lid is improved by the addition of a fluffy cover, such that it has to be _held_ in the “up” position if you want to avoid it falling mid-slash, conveniently absorbing a small percentage of the hot urine that’s splashing all over the damned place? Brilliant. [/QUOTE] Like most of these gender rules, my husband and I got the manuals mixed up. I never had a fluffy cover before we married. I think it’s disgusting and nasty - I want everything in my bathroom to be porcelain or metal - hard surfaces that can be disinfected with a sponge and bleach. He, OTOH, grew up with the fluffy toilets, and insists on having them now. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711/53 "2008-01-04T03:50:24Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] He, OTOH, grew up with the fluffy toilets, and insists on having them now. [/QUOTE] That’s against the natural order of things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toiltet-seat-down/431711.md?page=2)