# Told You So! (Tom Ridge Rats Out Bush/Cheney) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104 "2009-08-20T18:17:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/101 "2009-08-21T00:13:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The threat level wasn’t raised, though. > > From **bup** ’s cite: > > So, no: if the threat level wasn’t raised, then no one briefed anyone about it being raised. That doesn’t make sense. Did the Presidential Directive I quoted not apply? It wasn’t Ridge’s decision to make, was it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/102 "2009-08-21T00:19:48Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That doesn’t make sense. Did the Presidential Directive I quoted not apply? It wasn’t Ridge’s decision to make, was it? I think the disconnect is here: the directive you mention comes from before Homeland Security was a cabinet-level department, and so Cabinet officers (the AG, etc) get to make the call. I suspect that there’s a more recent directive from 2003 onwards that gives the Secretary of Homeland Security the power to set the level. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/103 "2009-08-21T00:31:29Z")
This finally prompted me to reset my password so I could log in. > [@Bricker](#): > > For eight years, I heard how stupid, clueless, and incompetent Bush was. An idiot, a smirking monkey with no real talent and certainly no real intelligence. > > Now he’s so plugged into things, and so aware of every move that it defies credulity he wouldn’t have been on top of every such move? You don’t have to be particularly bright to ask “hey guys why’d the terror alert go up?”. Being President it was his business, and sworn duty to the country to know. Do people of your political affiliation think “faithfully executing the Office of President” means lying through your teeth to the voters deciding if you should keep that office? Now you tell me. Was Bush an incompetent tool, too unfit for office to even find decent help, or a deceptive lying bastard with the terror alert? If you pick the lying option, what else was he lying about? Iraq? He certainly lied when he took his oath. If he’s just stupidly incompetent, well that kind says a lot of nasty things about the Republicans who rallied under him, don’t it? ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/104 "2009-08-21T00:44:51Z")
If you subscribe to the theory that Bush is completely incompetent, you also have to believe that Cheney and Carl Rove are his secret puppeteers. Otherwise, it would be farcical to think such a man could tie his own shoes, much less become president. In that case, it would have been Cheney who asked for the terror level to be elevated, in the same way it was Cheney that did anything Bush was purported to have. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/105 "2009-08-21T02:48:04Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > This finally prompted me to reset my password so I could log in. > > You don’t have to be particularly bright to ask “hey guys why’d the terror alert go up?”. Being President it was his business, and sworn duty to the country to know. Maybe you should have read the thread before you reset your password. THE TERROR ALERT DID NOT GO UP!!! RIDGE REFUSED THE “PUSH”!!! HE DIDN’T RAISE THE ALERT LEVEL!!! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/106 "2009-08-21T03:01:39Z")
Hey **Tao**! ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/107 "2009-08-21T03:16:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Maybe you should have read the thread before you reset your password. > > THE TERROR ALERT DID NOT GO UP!!! > RIDGE REFUSED THE “PUSH”!!! > > HE DIDN’T RAISE THE ALERT LEVEL!!! I guess it’s hard to say which incident we’re talking about until the book comes out, but on 8/1/04 (a couple days after the Democratic convention), the level went to Orange for “financial institutions in New York City, Washington and Newark, N.J.” Tom “Mr. Orange” Ridge cited a “confluence of intelligence over the weekend [pointing] to a car or truck bomb” ([cite](http://web.archive.org/web/20040804020410/http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040801_723.html)). So, there \*\*was \*\*a suspiciously-timed bump of the terror level in 2004. Whether Ridge refers to that in the book, I of course don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/108 "2009-08-21T03:19:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Maybe you should have read the thread before you reset your password. > > THE TERROR ALERT DID NOT GO UP!!! > RIDGE REFUSED THE “PUSH”!!! > > HE DIDN’T RAISE THE ALERT LEVEL!!! So who did raise the alert during the 2004 election, right after the democratic convention? It was raised, do you know that, right? You’re not that disconnected from the facts, correct? The same Administration who had no problems trying to connect Iraq with Al Quada, then lie to the public about it. After their claims Iraq was “a clear and present danger” were showed to be either grave incompetence or lies. Stop trying to lick Bush’s ass. It’s making you look like a moron. Have some self respect. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/109 "2009-08-21T03:21:26Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Hey **Tao**! hey yo! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/110 "2009-08-21T06:19:59Z")
Is this the scenario, then? Ridge raises the alert level to orange for certain financial institutions, so this is really yellow and a half, or yellow and a quarter: a public bump, but not really an “official” bumb, the national level stays at yellow. panic and anxiety not authorized unless you work somewhere that money is exchanged in some form. Of course, we don’t know exactly what threat was detected, that’s a secret. The election approaches, and maybe its not as great as it should be. The Axis of Evil, now Iran, North Korea, and ACORN have undermined America’s faith in The Leader, which might lead to a dangerous strategic blunder, i.e., the replacement of crucial leadership personnel at a crticial juncture. What if Kerry were elected and the nation rose up in furous outrage, be a perfect time for an attack, no? Anyway, he put up with raising to yellow and a half, even though the evidence was flimsy. He was easy, a bit of a slut. But when they asked to him to go to full orange just before the election, they were asking him to step over the line into flat-out whore. He had long ago given up the dinner-and-a-show standard, but still held firm at bus fare home. That what I’m guessing happened, and now he’d like to polish that up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/111 "2009-08-21T12:12:12Z")
You forgot the part about there being a hypothetical change in the Presidential Directive. That’s important to the plot. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/112 "2009-08-21T12:59:59Z")
Here’s a fantastic review of the matter from Glenn Greenwald: [http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/08/20/ambinder/index.html](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/08/20/ambinder/index.html) It includes a link which (although I didn’t check it out yet) is described as a 17 minute piece by Keith Olbermann laying out the correspondence between political events and increases in the terror alert. Equally of importance is Glenn’s description of how these assertions were and are treated - > [@](#): > > UPDATE: In comments, Gator90 sums it all up: > > The Maturation Cycle of Bush Administration Scandals > > 1. Crazy, hysterical, paranoid accusation by wild-eyed, partisan, left-wing loonies. > > 2. Old news > > What’s most amazing is that even when we reach Step 2, Step 1 still applies in full force. For us here, we’re treated to 1a. The pointilistic pendantry of right-wing hacks like **Bricker**. “Okay, maybe it happened, but was it really, specifically, demonstrably, infallably, with certitude and documentation, Bush who did it? Because otherwise…” Please check out Greenwald’s discussion on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/113 "2009-08-21T13:49:33Z")
I’ll wait for the actual passage to appear before I draw any conclusions - but it doesn’t look good. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/114 "2009-08-21T13:55:36Z")
Boy, you moonbat liberals certainly do like to get worked up over nothing. From Ridge’s book: “… It also _ **seemed possible** _ to me and to others around the table that something _ **could be** _ afoot other than simple concern about the country’s safety.” (Emphasis added) The threat level was never raised. Meanwhile, others at the meeting in question are denying politics played any role. Frances Townsend for one: “Tom Ridge wasn’t the only person in that meeting who suggested that the terror alert shouldn’t be raised. At no time was there any discussion of politics at that meeting. And the president was made a recommendation, a consensus recommendation from the council that he accepted, not to raise the terror alert.” But Ridge knows he needs to sell more than a few copies of his book. > **[Ridge: Bush officials sought to raise terror alert before '04 vote - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/21/ridge.terror.level/index.html)** > > Former Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge says he successfully countered an effort by senior Bush administration officials to raise the nation's terror alert level in the days before the 2004 presidential vote. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/115 "2009-08-21T13:57:20Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I guess it’s hard to say which incident we’re talking about until the book comes out, but on 8/1/04 (a couple days after the Democratic convention), the level went to Orange for “financial institutions in New York City, Washington and Newark, N.J.” Tom “Mr. Orange” Ridge cited a “confluence of intelligence over the weekend [pointing] to a car or truck bomb” ([cite](http://web.archive.org/web/20040804020410/http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040801_723.html)). So, there \*\*was \*\*a suspiciously-timed bump of the terror level in 2004. Whether Ridge refers to that in the book, I of course don’t know. If we believe that he was pushed to raise the alert because he wrote it in the book, then it seems clear to me we should believe he refused as well, for the same reason. We can hardly accept his word on incidents we wish to believe and call him a liar only when he don’t like what he’s saying. So if he did raise the alert at some other time, it seems a reasonably safe assumption that he did it based on some kind of evidence. Now, having seen that Rumsfeld and Ashcroft were willing to play with the alert of political expediency, we could certainly imagine that they would say, amongst each other, “Fucking Ridge won’t play along. So screw him – let’s feed him disinformation so Mr. Boy Scout feels Ok about raising the alert level.” That may have happened. But surely you’d agree we can’t jump to _yes, that DID happen_ without something more concrete. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/116 "2009-08-21T14:03:47Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > “Okay, maybe it happened, but was it really, specifically, demonstrably, infallably, with certitude and documentation, Bush who did it? Because otherwise…” …otherwise, maybe we shouldn’t say, “Really, specifically, demonstrably, infalliably, with certitude and documentation, Bush did it!” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/117 "2009-08-21T14:05:16Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So who did raise the alert during the 2004 election, right after the democratic convention? > > It was raised, do you know that, right? You’re not that disconnected from the facts, correct? > > The same Administration who had no problems trying to connect Iraq with Al Quada, then lie to the public about it. After their claims Iraq was “a clear and present danger” were showed to be either grave incompetence or lies. > Stop trying to lick Bush’s ass. It’s making you look like a moron. Have some self respect. That’s not the incident discussed in Ridge’s book. Or are you taking the position because it happened once (and Ridge refused to raise it) it MUST have happened again, and on that other occasion he did raise it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/118 "2009-08-21T14:08:02Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I guess it’s hard to say which incident we’re talking about until the book comes out, but on 8/1/04 (a couple days after the Democratic convention), the level went to Orange for “financial institutions in New York City, Washington and Newark, N.J.” Tom “Mr. Orange” Ridge cited a “confluence of intelligence over the weekend [pointing] to a car or truck bomb” ([cite](http://web.archive.org/web/20040804020410/http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040801_723.html)). So, there \*\*was \*\*a suspiciously-timed bump of the terror level in 2004. Whether Ridge refers to that in the book, I of course don’t know. It’s virtually certain that ISN’T the incident, because Ridge clearly says that in the end, the alert level was not raised. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/119 "2009-08-21T14:13:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That may have happened. But surely you’d agree we can’t jump to _yes, that DID happen_ without something more concrete. Again, I’ll wait until the book comes out. My guess is that **elucidator’s** scenario is the most likely narrative. The main takeway for me (so far) is, as you agreed earlier, that Rumsfeld and Ashcroft are scum for pushing Ridge, irresepective of whether the order came from Bush/Cheney or whether Ridge caved. ETA: the 8/1 incident is not the one mentioned in the blurb, but Ridge may discuss it at another point in the book. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104/120 "2009-08-21T14:15:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/20/ridge-politics-terror/](http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/20/ridge-politics-terror/) > > (Definitely a lefty site, tighty righty proceed with Shields Up…) > > Note: link offered so that you wont have to scroll down the site, and might think I’m on about _National Review_ pointing out how Obama is just like Ahmedinijad because he doesn’t wear a tie, this is about some other bullshit…And no, I’m not making that up! I don’t have to make shit up, and couldn’t if I tried! Just as a nitpick. Leaders of third world countries often go tieless as a way of distinguishing themselves from western capitalist suits. Try finding a pic of Evo Morales with a tie on. Obviously the comparison is absurd, but so would be comparing Evo Morales and Ahmadinejad who are probably not wearing ties for much the same reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/told-you-so-tom-ridge-rats-out-bush-cheney/507104.md?page=7)