# Tolkein Geekdom II - The meaning of -wë **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkein-geekdom-ii-the-meaning-of-we/102231 "2002-04-06T23:42:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkein-geekdom-ii-the-meaning-of-we/102231/1 "2002-04-06T23:42:28Z")
A lot of the male Valar and Eldar in the Silmarillion have names with the suffix _-wë._ See, for example, Manwë, Olwë, Elwë, Finwë, and Ingwë. But, the appendix doesn’t say what that suffix means. Does anyone have any idea? ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkein-geekdom-ii-the-meaning-of-we/102231/2 "2002-04-06T23:50:01Z")
I believe it’s just a suffix to turn adjectival roots into proper names. I could be wrong, though. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkein-geekdom-ii-the-meaning-of-we/102231/3 "2002-04-07T00:05:08Z")
Except the roots in some of these cases are nouns, not adjectives: “man” - good, blessed, unmarred “fin” - hair “el” - star. Can’t find “ol” or “ing”, so don’t know if that’s the case with them. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkein-geekdom-ii-the-meaning-of-we/102231/4 "2002-04-07T02:38:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > \*\*A lot of the male Valar and Eldar in the Silmarillion have names with the suffix _-wë._ > > See, for example, Manwë, Olwë, Elwë, Finwë, and Ingwë. But, the appendix doesn’t say what that suffix means. Does anyone have any idea? \*\* According to the [url=“[http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/](http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/)”]Ardalambion[\url] it means person, or being. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkein-geekdom-ii-the-meaning-of-we/102231/5 "2002-04-07T15:32:55Z")
**Qadgop** , I bow to your vastly superior geekdom! Thanks! Lessee now. According to that source, there are clear meanings to some of the names: > [@](#): > > **Manwë** “Blessed Being” (Letters:283), adopted from Valarin Mânawenûz; names ending in > -wë were already frequent in Quenya (WJ:399). Cf. Mánwen, Mánwë the oldest Quenya forms of > Manwë, closer to the Valarin form (WJ:399). Lower-case manwë in LR:56 > > **Ingwë** masc. name, “chief”. (PM:340). Pl. Ingwer “Chieftains”, what the Vanyar called themselves. Ingwë Ingweron “chief of the chieftains”, proper title of Ingwë as high king (PM:340) (Related words: inga “top, highest point” (PM:340); ingaran “high-king” (PM:340)) > > **Elwë** masc. name, \*“Star-person” (PM:340, WJ:369) However, for two of them, there’s a bit of difficulty: > [@](#): > > **Finwë** masc. name, apparently displaying the frequent ending -wë suffixed to a stem normally having to do with hair, but the name is obscure (see Tolkien’s discussion in PM:340-341) (Related word: **finë** “a hair” (PM:340)) So - “Hairy being”? hmmm. and what about the great clan of “Fin-” elves: Fingolfin, Finarfin, Finrod, and so on? The “Hairy Noldor”? hmmm. Some obscurity here. And Olwë, they just gave up on: > [@](#): > > **Olwë** masc. name (PM:340), difficult interpret (PM:341) (and curiously, I see on preview that when I bold ë it turns into **ë**? hmmm again.) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkein-geekdom-ii-the-meaning-of-we/102231/6 "2002-04-07T16:16:45Z")
Ardalambion is a great site, **Northern Piper**. Here’s a functioning link to it. Ardalambion ---
**Author:** ![RenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@RenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RenMan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkein-geekdom-ii-the-meaning-of-we/102231/7 "2002-04-09T16:37:07Z")
Just one question - how do you pronounce the vowel in the **ë**? For example, is **Aulë** pronounced as: OW’ lee or OW’ leh or OW’ lay or even just OW’ luh ?