# Tolkien and the Art of the Manuscript: My visit to view JRRT's original notes and drawings **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [November 27, 2022, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616 "2022-11-27T03:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/21 "2022-12-04T00:37:28Z")
The Glorund drawing and the Shores of Faery drawing are both printed in _J.R.R. Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator_, along with many other amazing pieces of artwork. The book is available for less than $30 [from Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/J-R-R-Tolkien-Illustrator-Wayne-Hammond/dp/0618083618), and is well worth it. The Earendillinwe page looks awfully familiar too, but I’m not sure where or if I’ve seen it before. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/22 "2022-12-04T00:42:34Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Lots of the manuscripts were nothing but examples of his spidery yet nearly if not truly illegible penmanship. When he was drafting new work “at speed”, his writing was what I would call entirely illegible. I’m amazed that his son was able to decipher as much as he did in the History of Middle-Earth. Here’s an example of some of his drafting. The difference between this and his more careful calligraphy is like night and day. [![](https://i.stack.imgur.com/mnwfp.jpg) ](https://i.stack.imgur.com/mnwfp.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/23 "2022-12-04T03:51:29Z")
My copy shipped today. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/24 "2022-12-04T04:03:05Z")
My wife bought a copy for me, but she’s going to wrap it and put under the xmas tree. So it’ll be about 3 weeks before I open it. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/25 "2022-12-05T17:23:49Z")
Here’s a possibly interesting aside (but quite the coincidence). Today we went to Mottisfont, a National Trust property, where there was an exhibition of original illustrations from CS Lewis’ Narnia books. They were created by Pauline Baynes who, it turns out, was a noted Tolkien illustrator. > **[Pauline Baynes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Baynes)** > > Pauline Diana Baynes (9 September 1922 – 1 August 2008) was an English illustrator, author and commercial artist. She contributed drawings and paintings to more than 200 books, mostly in the children's genre. She was the first illustrator of some of J. R. R. Tolkien's minor works and of C. S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia. > Baynes was born on 9 September 1922 at 67 Brunswick Place, Hove, East Sussex, England. Her father was Frederick William Wilberforce Baynes (1887 – 1967) and her mother was J... During the Second World War she was recruited to work for the Royal Engineers Camouflage Department and later to prepare maps for military use. Her mapmaking skills were subsequently put to use on maps of Middle Earth. I’m sure you guys know much more about her than I do. The exhibits were assembled from the US for this show, so I guess her works will be exhibited over there from time to time. j ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/26 "2022-12-21T16:54:04Z")
A friend of mine and I have tickets to see the exhibit tomorrow afternoon, which turns out to be _terrible_ timing, as that’s also when a winter storm will be hitting the area, with snow, 50mph winds, and whiteout conditions. Not an ideal day to be making a 100 mile trek up to Milwaukee. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/27 "2022-12-21T17:08:30Z")
It’d be worse if you were trudging up Caradhras the cruel, right? Good luck. We’ve got to get our oldest daughter to O’hare tomorrow morning for her 10 AM flight back to Vancouver. Plus I’ve got covid now. Ugh. I hope you enjoy. I recommend staying at the Pfister Hotel if you’re stuck in MKE. My youngest’s mother in law is a part time concierge there. Fancy place! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/28 "2022-12-22T19:13:56Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > It’d be worse if you were trudging up Caradhras the cruel, right? Yes, it would be. 😃 On the other hand, I don’t have access to an Wizard, a Ranger, or an elf. My friend and I had decided that the roads were going to be too lousy this afternoon, so we’d already decided to not go – and, then, this morning, I got an email from the museum, informing me that Marquette was closing the entire campus, including the museum, at noon today, due to the storm. They extended an invitation, for people who had tickets for today, to instead come see the exhibit on Monday, the 2nd; my friend and I are both able to go on that day, so that’s our plan (barring another snowstorm!) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/29 "2022-12-22T21:07:13Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I don’t have access to an Wizard, a Ranger, or an elf. …that you know of. /Strider ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/30 "2022-12-22T23:36:00Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > see the exhibit on Monday Yay! We got my daughter to O’hare and she made it out, and we’ll be hot tubbing outside tonight in -2 degree temps overlooking t̶h̶e̶ s̶e̶a̶ o̶f̶ H̶e̶l̶c̶a̶r̶ Lake Michigan ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/31 "2022-12-22T23:41:54Z")
Hooray and nice! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/32 "2022-12-22T23:45:59Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > we’ll be hot tubbing outside tonight in -2 degree temps overlooking t̶h̶e̶ s̶e̶a̶ o̶f̶ H̶e̶l̶c̶a̶r̶ Lake Michigan Beware any elves with murder in their eyes, traversing the icy waters. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/33 "2022-12-22T23:47:32Z")
> [@susan](#): > > that you know of. At least he’s got Death’s granddaughter keeping an eye on him! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/34 "2022-12-22T23:50:53Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > At least he’s got Death’s granddaughter keeping an eye on him! 😉 This is at least moderately reassuring. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/35 "2022-12-22T23:55:53Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > This is at least moderately reassuring. She has First Sight; the gift of seeing what’s actually there. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/36 "2023-01-02T23:48:22Z")
I did, indeed, get up to Milwaukee for the exhibit today, and had a great time seeing it. It was incredible to see some of Tolkien’s actual manuscripts, and how famous passages from the books evolved through drafts. I got to talk with the staff a bit, and they said that, as the people who will dismantling the displays and shipping items back to their owners aren’t coming until tomorrow, they were able to offer this extra day today for people who weren’t able to attend on the 22nd. Also, as today is a day off for a lot of people, traffic was extremely light, which was a nice bonus. I also participated in a project with a researcher who was there, asking visitors to share their personal experiences around Tolkien through recorded interviews (questions like “how were you first exposed to Tolkien’s works?” and “What does Tolkien and Middle-Earth mean to you?”). Definitely worth the trip, so thank you for alerting us about it, @Qadgop_the_Mercotan! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/37 "2023-01-03T02:11:20Z")
Green. Envy. Angry thoughts re brief of law… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/38 "2024-09-04T15:27:47Z")
Right, I never made it to the exhibit, but a while ago I checked the Haggerty Museum and they still have some of the catalogues available. I ordered it and it arrived yesterday. It’s beautiful! Drawings, calligraphy, notes on possible additions to the corpus (including a calligraphy version of a page that introduces an evil version of Treebeard. He got better.) Not the sort of thing to read cover to cover, but a “dip into it” book, to look at different illustrations from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/39 "2024-09-04T15:42:46Z")
wow he was a good artist and calligraphy like that is a lost art pretty cool as a kid I liked the hobbit and as a mostly life long D&D fan always felt strange I couldn’t get into LOTR… ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616/40 "2024-09-04T15:50:38Z")
It’s a lovely thing to skim periodically. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-and-the-art-of-the-manuscript-my-visit-to-view-jrrts-original-notes-and-drawings/975616.md?page=1)