# Tolkien Fan Entmoot **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [February 12, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328 "2008-02-12T20:38:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/241 "2022-03-21T18:20:12Z")
Here’s more on Tolkien’s musings about that particular Elf-lord: [Glorfindel | The One Wiki to Rule Them All | Fandom](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Glorfindel?so=search#Other_versions_of_the_legendarium) Also in the news: > **[Rarely Seen Paintings by J.R.R. Tolkien Portray a Lush 'Lord of the Rings'...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/jrr-tolkiens-estate-publishes-rare-lord-of-the-rings-paintings-and-maps-online-180979674/)** > > The Tolkien Estate recently published a trove of rare, unpublished art by the famed fantasy author on its website And see: [Painting - The Tolkien Estate](https://www.tolkienestate.com/painting/) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/242 "2022-03-22T17:00:35Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Tolkien hemmed and hawed, and fretted, and thought about it, and finally said that it might be a case of reincarnation. When Tolkien does a retcon, one can be assured that it’s been well thought out. 🙂 AIUI he also fretted for decades over the question of whether or not orcs are irredeemably evil – and how the answer jives with his metaphysical world view – and I don’t think he ever came to a good conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/243 "2022-03-23T13:04:53Z")
I have another question. In the Return of the King ( I think) The Fellowship comes to Gondor where they meet [Imrahil](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Imrahil). It says that Legolas bows to him. Is he of royal blood? I was never clear on why the bow. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/244 "2022-03-23T13:10:50Z")
Imrahil is the Prince of Dol Amroth. In fact his daughter Findulilas weds Éomer and becomes Queen of Rohan. Legolas recognized that somewhere in the line of Imrahil is Elven Blood, besides the much further removed descent from Elros brother of Elrond. * * * [Mithrellas](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Mithrellas) was Sindarin or Silven Elf of Lothlórien. She got lost in Belfalas and was rescued by Imrazôr of Dol Amroth. A Dúnadan of high descent. He was the first Prince of Dol Amroth. * * * * * * Imrahil was also uncle to Boromir & Faramir as his sister Finduilas was their mother and Denathor’s wife. Many say her early death helped lead to Denathor’s despair that led to the use of the Palantir that led to his madness. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/245 "2022-03-23T14:21:29Z")
But would Legolas “care” (as in would he bow to) a human Prince of Dol Amroth? Or you’re saying that he’s bowing to Imrahil’s Elven side, so to speak? He likely also bowed to Elrond, but he _doesn’t_ bow to Galadriel, I don’t think. (It’s been a little while). > [@What\_Exit](#): > > She got lost in Belfalas I first read this as “she got lost in Belfast” 🙂 Thank you for your replies, smart people! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/246 "2022-03-23T14:34:06Z")
The Redbook doesn’t record Legolas’ reaction to meeting Lady Galadriel. I just double checked “The Mirror of Galadriel” chapter to be sure. Legolas went up with Frodo and I think Frodo was too overwhelmed by meeting the Lady to note what Legolas did or didn’t do. * * * * * * I don’t know enough about Belfast, is it dangerous to be lost there? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2022, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/247 "2022-03-23T21:49:01Z")
Not so much any more (well, no more than any other city), but it was right smack in the middle of the Troubles, back in the day. Actually, even at the height of the Troubles, it probably wasn’t all that much more dangerous than other cities, by the numbers, but the dangers were much more dramatic. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/248 "2022-03-24T18:22:26Z")
I’ll share my own old joke from the time of the Troubles: A small, well-dressed man enters a Belfast pub late one night. Everyone glowers at him, and a huge bruiser soon gets up, walks over to him and asks threateningly, “Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?” “Why, neither,” the new guy says, sipping his beer. “I’m Jewish.” The bruiser is a bit taken aback at first, but then he snarls, “Are you a Catholic Jew or a Protestant Jew?” ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/249 "2022-03-24T21:15:12Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Who did I miss and to everybody what draws you to the Professor’s world enough to talk about it on the SDMB? I used to be quite active on the rec.arts.books.tolkien newsgroup on Usenet (which, by the way, is still active). Anyone else from here currently or formerly active there? I also read most of the Tolkien-related threads here, but post in them rarely. Usually by the time I arrive, the questions have already been answered, and the issues too thoroughly discussed. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/250 "2022-03-26T18:40:32Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I used to be quite active on the rec.arts.books.tolkien newsgroup on Usenet (which, by the way, is still active). Anyone else from here currently or formerly active there? I was! (Formerly). I had no idea Usenet was still a thing. I believe rec.arts. Etc. was the battleground for the infamous “do balrogs have wings?” flame war. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/251 "2022-03-26T19:09:03Z")
That sounds right. My early Tolkien group was an actual BBS, yes, dial up. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/252 "2022-03-26T23:02:13Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I believe rec.arts. Etc. was the battleground for the infamous “do balrogs have wings?” flame war. Shadow and flame war, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/253 "2022-03-28T10:27:33Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I was! (Formerly). I had no idea Usenet was still a thing. Yes, still a thing. I co-chair the [management board for the Big-8 groups](https://www.big-8.org/) (including rec.\*). > [@](#): > > I believe rec.arts. Etc. was the battleground for the infamous “do balrogs have wings?” flame war. It was indeed. I tended to post less lofty but no less intriguing questions, such as whether wizards have sex. I remember some other poster took exception to this line of questioning, thinking my curiosity wasn’t sincere, and started posting satirical threads with subject lines such as, “Does elf shit stink?” ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/254 "2022-03-28T11:42:33Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > “Does elf shit stink?” No. Only when they choose to be mortal does this happen. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/255 "2022-03-28T11:52:14Z")
Ah, here we go. Here’s a couple examples of my offbeat but sincere questions: - [Wizard sex (no, seriously)](https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.books.tolkien/c/bbMQi9ycUqo/m/t1BnwTf63tMJ?hl=en) - [Does Sam have what it takes to be a murderer?](https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.books.tolkien/c/hahCK0vGck4/m/l29qRW9hT6YJ) And here’s a fellow rec.arts.books.tolkien denizen taking the piss: - [Does Elf Shit Stink.](https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.books.tolkien/c/4NuI-gjqY2M/m/LcG5n3zZ9TMJ?hl=en) ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/256 "2022-03-28T12:16:21Z")
Now I want to read about “Saruman Jr.” Saruman was interested in power and domination but I don’t see him “stooping” to hanky-panky. Gandalf was a workaholic doing the job of three people. Radagast? Yeah, I can buy it. I put too much thought into all of that. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/257 "2022-03-28T12:32:08Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Saruman was interested in power and domination but I don’t see him “stooping” to hanky-panky. If he had been wise enough to foresee the possibility of his own death, he might have taken the trouble to sire an heir or two. Tolkien wrote that Radagast practically abandoned his mission in favour of worldly interests, and that the two Blue Wizards were thought to have done likewise, perhaps founding their own cults in the far east. One can well imagine that this reorientation towards more materialistic pursuits might have led them to an interest in sex for recreational or procreative purposes. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/258 "2022-03-28T12:33:13Z")
I referred to Merry as Kalimac in a Tolkien group on Facebook and no one questioned it. This is the level of geek i associate with. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/259 "2022-03-28T12:40:47Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I referred to Merry as Kalimac in a Tolkien group on Facebook and no one questioned it What does it mean to us mere mortals? 😀 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/260 "2022-03-28T12:43:39Z")
Kalimac Brandagamba is Merry’s actually name in Westron but Tolkien translated it to Meriadoc Brandybuck. Remember, the idea is the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings are translated from the Red Book of Westmarch. Also as a leading philologist, The Good Professor loved languages. > **[Red Book of Westmarch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_of_Westmarch)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > The Red Book of Westmarch (sometimes the Thain's Book\[T 1\] after its principal version) is a fictional manuscript written by hobbits, related to the author J. R. R. Tolkien's frame stories. It is an instance of the found manuscript conceit, a literary device to explain the source of his fantasy writings. The book is supposedly a collection of writings in which the events of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were recounted by their characters... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328.md?page=14)