# Tolkien Fan Entmoot **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [February 12, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328 "2008-02-12T20:38:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/41 "2008-02-13T05:01:14Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Wasn’t your old user name Tolkien related? I think it was when I joined. Maybe I am as wrong as I was about \*\*QtM \*\* and Heinlein before. [/QUOTE] His username used to be **Dwalin** , yes. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/42 "2008-02-13T05:16:37Z")
I’m glad to be included in **What Exit?**'s list. The eldest of my two older sisters was a hardcore Tolkien fan in junior high, and even taught herself to write in Tengwar. She gave me _The Hobbit_ for Christmas one year, illustrated with cartoons, and I dipped into it now and again, but never really embraced it. Then I read LOTR in high school and was totally, wholeheartedly, body-and-soul hooked. I read _The Silmarillion_ a year or so later and was baffled, but then read it again, and then yet again - not until the third time was I totally swept away. ( **Eonwe** and **robardin** , you’re not alone). The movies reawakened my interest in Tolkien, and from 2001-03 I re-read each of the three volumes just before seeing each of the movies. I liked them very much, despite some nitpicks here and there, and enjoy returning to them and the books from time to time. Carpenter’s _Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien_ and Foster’s _The Complete Guide to Middle-Earth_ are also favorite resources of mine. As my username indicates, I’m still a big fan. The depth and scope of Tolkien’s historical vision, his love of language and his near-perfect melding of adventure, pathos, heroism, poetry, morality, ecology, myth, magic and romance are still unmatched, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/43 "2008-02-13T05:32:43Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] 6. I find the slash/fan fic distasteful, even when I indulged in it myself. I think it says more about our lack of understanding of Victorian/Edwardian culture than it does of Tolkien’s latent anything. (although I would not rule anything out in Tolkien’s personal life, I just don’t see Sam and Frodo as gay). But you didn’t ask about that. [/QUOTE] This is maybe a hijack, but are you saying that slash/fan fic has Victorian roots, or at least quasi-Victorian roots? This is a question from a guy who has never had any interest in reading any slash, and the only fan fiction I’ve read has been some published Star Trek short stories. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/44 "2008-02-13T05:34:23Z")
[QUOTE=Eonwe] This is maybe a hijack, but are you saying that slash/fan fic has Victorian roots, or at least quasi-Victorian roots? This is a question from a guy who has never had any interest in reading any slash, and the only fan fiction I’ve read has been some published Star Trek short stories. [/QUOTE] I think she’s saying that the behavior that modern slashfic writers are interpreting as gay (between Frodo and Sam) had a very different meaning in Victorian/Edwardian/Georgian(?) times (the master/servant relationship), when Tolkien was writing LOTR. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/45 "2008-02-13T05:41:32Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] I think she’s saying that the behavior that modern slashfic writers are interpreting as gay (between Frodo and Sam) had a very different meaning in Victorian/Edwardian/Georgian(?) times (the master/servant relationship), when Tolkien was writing LOTR. [/QUOTE] Gotcha, thanks for the explanation. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/46 "2008-02-13T06:06:03Z")
I read the trilogy first when I was eighteen, just a couple years after the Ace ‘unauthorized edition’ brouhaha. Didn’t get around to _The Hobbit_ until I was about twenty-seven. I like the books for the richness, and the movies for the sheer spectacle. Besides the sheer length, the books just wouldn’t translate directly into a well into a screenplay. I’m thinking the middle section of _The Two Towers_ in particular. The whole battle of Hornburg was just eight pages. I did notice that all the really nifty lines were lifted ditectly from J R R himself. Oh, and add me to the folks sitting at **QtM** ’s feet, gazing up in wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/47 "2008-02-13T06:07:37Z")
[QUOTE=DesertDog] I did notice that all the really nifty lines were lifted ditectly from J R R himself. [/QUOTE] Yeah, like “No one tosses a dwarf!!!” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/48 "2008-02-13T06:20:16Z")
I did like how in the movies, at least early on, they did chapter name callouts (Gandalf mumbling “riddles in the dark”, Sam saying “A shortcut to what?” Merry: “Mushrooms!”). Plenty of homaging to go around. ---
**Author:** ![Ichbin\_Dubist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ichbin\_Dubist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichbin_Dubist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/49 "2008-02-13T11:10:42Z")
This is as good a place as any to ask this: I’m reading _The Hobbit_ to my 8-year-old daughter for the second time. I think she might be ready to plunge into the trilogy – at least, I’m willing to give the first book a shot. (To establish my lack of bona fides here, I read LOTR three or four times as a teen, and reread it before the first movie came out, so I’m aware of its differences from _The Hobbit_ but am far from an expert.) The edition of _The Hobbit_ we’re reading is illustrated – by Michael Hague, who’s good at dragons but bad at faces – but I just have the standard-issue 70s paperbacks for LOTR. So here at last is the question: Can anyone recommend a companion volume of illustrations to LOTR? I remember that the Brothers Hildebrandt kind of ruled this little kingdom back in the 70s, and I was surprised to see cheap used versions of their book on Amazon. But the only other stuff I saw seemed to be movie-related. Anyway, recommend away. And, uh, not in Sindarin so I have some hope of understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/50 "2008-02-13T12:27:43Z")
My two favorite artists for Tolkien are Alan Lee and John Howe. If you’ve seen their illustrations in books you basically saw the pivotal images of the Lord of the Rings movies. I have this [version](http://www.amazon.com/Hobbit-Illustrated-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/0395873460/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202905310&sr=1-5) with Alan Lee’s art which I love. ---
**Author:** ![Lilacs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Lilacs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilacs)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/51 "2008-02-13T12:31:06Z")
Please add me to the moot… I don’t post much, and most of the time the Tolkien threads have progressed to the point where anything I add will be of the “me too” variety. I love Middle Earth, from the very beginning to the end of the Rings appendices. I confess to being a lover of the Elder days, with the Elf Kingdoms and their inevitable tragic collapses. My current copy of the Silmarillion is falling apart, I will need to buy another soon. I’m probably on my fourth or fith copies (paperback) of the Lord of the Rings, and same with the Hobbit. My sister started it all for me. I was probably seven or eight when I first read the Hobbit and I had to plunge into the Lord of the Rings not long after. As far as the movies go: there are parts that I loved, and parts that made me cringe. But the rendering of Middle Earth was very dedicated, and very loving. So, I can forgive the errors. But I don’t require anyone love the movies either. **Ichbin Dubist** , if you can find Tolkien’s art work that would be the best way to go. I’m pretty sure there are books available. I had a couple of calendars of his artwork that I prize. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/52 "2008-02-13T12:31:30Z")
I love Tolkien’s works, but I’m hardly a scholar on them. I do like reading the threads here talking about them, and I have learned a lot via **QtM** ’s posts. _hat tip_🙂 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/53 "2008-02-13T12:46:18Z")
:eek: - I feel like I’m an Entwife! Nobody remembers me. ☹ I’m an enthusiast too. I joined the Tolkien Society for a few years (we all went to a preview of Bakshi’s film) and even recieved a short reply to my letter from Professor Tolkien. 🆒 I’m pleased that Tolkien’s genius can still be seen in roleplaying + computer games nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Walkabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walkabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walkabout)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/54 "2008-02-13T13:22:14Z")
Add me to the list of Tolkien lurkers, although I’m not a true Tolkien scholar. I think that J.R.R.Tolkien had a profound influence on my life. I started reading LoTR around 1974, when I was in junior high school, and became a devoted fan of those books throughout high school. I remember exchanging notes with a boyfriend written in Dwarvish runes when I was in high school. In college, a friend of my roommate spent the night at our apartment, and in the morning I found him reading my copy of the Silmarillion. Our shared interest in Middle Earth sparked a relationship, which led to marriage. We have been married for 25 years now. Although I have not read the books for a number of years, and I have forgotten a lot of the details, I still am a devoted fan and often lurk in the Tolkien threads. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/55 "2008-02-13T13:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Hey, come on now, no comments on my use of Ent as the opposite of a Troll, implying a wise addition to an on-line community as opposed to an evil monster? [/QUOTE] Hmm, well, Trolls don’t seem the mooting type. Though to be fair, they seemed to reach consensus a lot faster than Ents do in _The Hobbit_, absent ventriloquism from a meddlesome wizard at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/56 "2008-02-13T14:27:20Z")
I guess I can be added to that list also. While I don’t recall posting in any Tolkien related thread, it’s mostly because I’m relatively new to the SDMB. I’ve read all published works of the Professor - many of them multiple times - and was fascinated enough to learn basics of sindarin and quenya. Tengwar is in my opinion one of the most beautiful writing systems ever. About movies, my pet pewee is depiction of Saruman. I’ve always seen him as tragic figure - with good intentions, at least initially, but ultimately misled and deceived by the power of ring. In movies he is just standard evil wizard with depth of kiddie part of swimming pool. A pity. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/57 "2008-02-13T14:47:35Z")
Welcome all to the Entmoot, I expect we might get past the roll call in a week or so. Provided we are not in any hurry. 😉 [QUOTE=robardin] Hmm, well, Trolls don’t seem the mooting type. Though to be fair, they seemed to reach consensus a lot faster than Ents do in _The Hobbit_, absent ventriloquism from a meddlesome wizard at any rate. [/QUOTE] “Meddlesome Wizards” might be a good band name. As this is just a rambling and oddball thread, I thought I would add a question. What are your favorite characters and why? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/58 "2008-02-13T15:27:04Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] … and whether or not Balrogs have dongs (I don’t believe they do). [/QUOTE] :eek: Balrog: It feels like burning, _down there_. Morgoth: What did I tell you about chasing after that Arien? She’s no good, is what she is. Sauron: … and _where_ did you put that Ring I gave you? ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/59 "2008-02-13T15:28:35Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] What are your favorite characters and why? [/QUOTE] I’ll go with Bilbo and Samwise, the only two people I’m aware of who willingly gave up the One Ring. Samwise gets added kudos for the incredible growth his character undergoes. When he says to Rosie Cotton, “Well, I’m back,” and you realize how impossible it would be for him to explain all that he’s gone through, it really drives that home for me. Also, Faramir. He had me at “Not even if I found it on the ground would I take it.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328/60 "2008-02-13T15:31:33Z")
Aragorn and Sam. Or Aragorn and Faramir. Can I have 3? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fan-entmoot/437328.md?page=4)