# Tolkien fans--so...Orcs are mutilated Elves? Wha..? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 6, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034 "2014-03-06T18:50:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/61 "2014-03-09T16:58:27Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I don’t think we have any clear-cut examples of Valar or Maiar reproducing in the works we generally and loosely consider as canon (LOTR, SIL, UT), do we? Melian. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/62 "2014-03-09T17:12:41Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Melian. :smack: :smack: :smack: Senility’s definitely setting in. I have forgotten much that I thought I knew. I can see many things far off, but many things that are close at hand I cannot see. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/63 "2014-03-09T17:20:22Z")
By the One, I stole a march on the Master! Mark it in the Red Book, Elanor! ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/64 "2014-03-09T17:22:30Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > By the One, I stole a march on the Master! Mark it in the Red Book, Elanor! Quiet, you! :o ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/65 "2014-03-09T18:10:43Z")
Since we are speaking of elves, here is the thing I could never figure out.How are there enough elves to go around? 1.There were 144 elves awakened late in the years of the trees. 2. They don’t really start breeding until their 4 digits 3. They typically have 2-3 kids, with a few outliers. 4. There are large numbers killed in battle with Morgoth, Sauron, kinslaying. 5.Smaller numbers corrupted into orcs, getting lost, being avari etc. The math just doesn’t seem to work, unless those rules were only for the noble elves, and the Proletariat Elves were boffing like bunnies. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/66 "2014-03-09T18:51:15Z")
Elves don’t die from old age or illness, presumably, which would result in their numbers increasing over time even with a low birth rate. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/67 "2014-03-10T01:54:56Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Elves don’t die from old age or illness, presumably, which would result in their numbers increasing over time even with a low birth rate. But they basically spent their entire existence in one war or another. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/68 "2014-03-10T02:13:58Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Melian. Melian conceived and gave birth as an elf woman. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/69 "2014-03-10T02:20:40Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Well maybe it’s not a problem for orcs, but lighting a field enough that you can see what you’re doing is tricky enough even with electric lights, especially once the crops start growing and casting shadows. That said, orcs seem to prefer meat so I’d guess they’d prefer to raise animals. You could maybe create some kind of factory farm, but if you keep your animals outside I can imagine it would still be tough if you can’t go outside during the day. There could be predators, escaped animals or all kinds of other issues that aren’t necessarily predictable enough to save for nighttime. They could always grow [rhubarb.](http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/CultureAndLeisure/HistoricWakefield/Rhubarb/default.htm) ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/70 "2014-03-10T03:00:06Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > But they basically spent their entire existence in one war or another. Yes, and “My regiment is shipping out to the front line tomorrow” is the best pick-up line ever invented. World War II was the bloodiest war in human history, but the earth’s population was greater in 1945 than in 1939. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034/71 "2014-03-10T03:52:14Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > They could always grow [rhubarb.](http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/CultureAndLeisure/HistoricWakefield/Rhubarb/default.htm) Or mushrooms. Maybe that’s where Orcs and Hobbits can find common ground, in their love for mushrooms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-fans-so-orcs-are-mutilated-elves-wha/683034.md?page=3)