# Tolkien Geek Challenge **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208 "2002-04-06T19:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/21 "2002-04-07T05:58:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\*Okay, now _this_ is obscure trivia. Granted, Google makes anybody a contender these days, but I want to try it out anyway, and see who can answer the question, and ask equally challenging ones. > > Who was the Vala of song, who could speak any language? \*\* Vana ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/22 "2002-04-07T06:05:18Z")
Hmm, I’ve been looking for an excuse to say that Elrond is 6.25% Maia, 37.5% Human and 56.25% Elf. ---
**Author:** ![Cougarfang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c67d28/32.png) [@Cougarfang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cougarfang)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/23 "2002-04-07T07:57:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5 time champ \* > \*\*5TC-3 What sport was said to be invented with parts of Orcs? > \*\* Golf, I think… Bullroarer Took knocked the head off of the orc Golfimbul with a club during battle, where it rolled down a rabbit’s hole. [sub]Geez, this is the only question that I actually know the answer to… :o[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/24 "2002-04-07T09:50:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5 time champ \* > **5TC-4 Where were the Seven Stones originally placed?** 1. Minas Anor 2. Minas Ithil 3. Orthanc 4. Osgiliath, under the Dome of Stars before its ruin (location of the chief and master of the _palantíri_) 5. Annúminas 6. Amon Sûl 7. On the Tower Hills that look towards Mithlond in the Gulf of Lune where the grey ships lie. (location of Elendil’s Stone) Here’s one for you: Where was Galabas and what family was named for it? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/25 "2002-04-07T12:38:26Z")
Alright, as long as all you Tolkien geeks are here, I gotta question (it’s a real question, not a trivia question, I have no idea what the answer is): Other than being real pretty, does the arkenstone “do” anything? Was it magic? Or just decorative? I’ve always wondered. Oh, and who was the Children of Beorn’s Mom? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/26 "2002-04-07T15:25:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DPWhite \* > \*\* Yet if they had wings, they were never useful for flying, because no balrog is ever recorded as flying, including the one that fell in Moria, when flying would have saved it. Moreover, Gandalf broke the bridge with the intent of causing said fall, knowing the capabilities of a balrog, and he wouldn’t have wasted his time if it were merely able to fly up. So if it did have wings, they weren’t for flying. So what you’re driving at is that Balrogs are, in essence, horrifically nasty chickens. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/27 "2002-04-07T15:27:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*Vana \*\* Sorry, not Vana. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/28 "2002-04-07T15:29:28Z")
While we’re waiting another day for the answer to my original post, I’ll add another really obscure one. Which two Vala were most sympathetic to Melko’s cause, and what was their relationship to each other? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/29 "2002-04-07T15:42:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Qagdop, if you’re going to post questions that can’t be answered without the complete annotated 35 volume set of J.R.R.'s grade school notebooks, I surrender! **LL** , you _don’t have_ the complete series? I am stunned! ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/30 "2002-04-07T18:26:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by furt \* > \*\*So what you’re driving at is that Balrogs are, in essence, horrifically nasty chickens. > \*\* Can I make that my sig quote? 😃 BTW, [here’s another article](http://www.xenite.org/tolkien/do-balrogs-have-wings.html) on the Balrog question that addresses the flying question in a bit more detail. It turns out to be rather complicated, but the conclusion the article reaches is that yes, Balrogs did have wings, or at least the one in Moria did (which is, after all, the most likely reading of “its wings spread from wall to wall”), and, being Maiar, they could probably fly if they wanted to. Jomo Mojo’s question: Galabas is in the Shire, isn’t it? That’s where the Galbasi – shortened to _Galpsi,_ and translated as _Gamgee_ – family gets their name. (Admittedly, I looked this up – it’s one of the last things in Appendix F – but only to confirm my suspicion. :)) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/31 "2002-04-07T19:11:55Z")
Quoth **Jomo Mojo** : > [@](#): > > ``` > 1. Minas Anor > 2. Minas Ithil > 3. Orthanc > 4. Osgiliath, under the Dome of Stars before its ruin (location of the chief and master of the > palantíri) > 5. Annúminas > 6. Amon Sûl > 7. On the Tower Hills that look towards > Mithlond in the Gulf of Lune where the grey ships lie. (location of Elendil's Stone) > > ``` Nope, the question said _originally_. Remember, the Seven Stones were in Numenor before they were brought to Middle Earth, and before that, they were a gift from the Elves of Tol Eressea. Based on the theory that they were Feanorian works, I’d say that they were probably originally placed in Feanor’s treasure house in Valinor. As to Balrog wings, by the way: Some have supposed that Durin’s Bane didn’t have enough room to spread its wings fully in the narrow chasm, and so fell, but the same cannot be said of the one which fought Glorfindel in the escape from Gondor, which also fell to its death, but out in the open. Here’s a couple more: By what name was Artanis better known? How many humanoid races played a part in _The Hobbit_? And just to make things harder for index searchers, here’s a compound question: A certain unpleasent queen of Gondor had ten pets. What powerful being is the prince of those animals? ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/32 "2002-04-07T19:45:22Z")
I just read the Michael Martinez link referred to above, where he argues convincingly for balrog wings. (Just as the Encyclopaedia of Arda argues for no wings convincingly.) Now I have always imagined the Balrog of Moria with wings, fitting in with the 70s movie and now Jackson’s wonderful interpretation. I also vague recall a privitive drawing by someone (just above stick figures in detail maybe by Tolkien) showing a balrog in man shape with a cape, but no wings, but I cannot remember where I saw it. Martinez argues that Tolkien drastically changed what he meant by balrogs over time, finally only becoming demons for LOTR, and at one point late writing a note to himself that there weren’t a 1000, but only 7. Much of Martinez’s argument rests on the difference between Tokiens early conception and final realization, making the final realization quite different from the merely powerful warriors of early on. But it is clear to me at least that it is only from the non-LOTR writings that the nature of balrogs as fallen angels is realized. Of course there is no requirement that balrogs all be the same. Why should they. Nor should Tolkien’s late note about there being only 7 be accepted. He didn’t publish it, and it is inconsistent with other writings further along in the process of being completed. Maybe some had wings and others did not. We must await further publications (and I gather that pretty much everything in any condition close to publishable has already been published in the 12 or so volumes of notes). ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/33 "2002-04-07T19:45:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > **By what name was Artanis better known?** Galadriel. (My sister uses the name as a handle at another site… > [@](#): > > \*\*How many humanoid races played a part in _The Hobbit_? > \*\* Hmmm…that depends on how you define humanoid, I suppose, but let’s see… Hobbits (Gollum counts as a hobbit) Dwarves Istari/Maia (aka Gandalf) Elves Goblins/Orcs Men those giants playing football in the mountains whatever Beorn is (skin-changer? were-bear?) Which comes out to eight, but I’m probably forgetting some… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/34 "2002-04-07T20:14:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\*While we’re waiting another day for the answer to my original post, I’ll add another really obscure one. Which two Vala were most sympathetic to Melko’s cause, and what was their relationship to each other? \*\* hmmm - Vala sympathetic to Melkor? I can think of two Maia, but Vala? hmmm. Any hints? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/35 "2002-04-07T21:03:26Z")
I know nothing, but my Tolkien geek roomate asks: f-1 Tom Bombadil renamed four ponies. What were the names? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/36 "2002-04-07T21:22:58Z")
Actually, he re-named _five_ ponies - the four for the hobbits, plus their pack pony: > [@](#): > > Hey! now! Come hoy now! Whither do you wander? > Up, down, near or far, here, there, or yonder? > Sharp-ears, Wise-nose, Swish-tail and Bumpkin, > White-socks my little lad, and old Fatty Lumpkin? Fatty Lumpkin, of course, was Tom’s own pony. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/37 "2002-04-07T22:30:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > \*\*hmmm - Vala sympathetic to Melkor? I can think of two Maia, but Vala? hmmm. Any hints? \*\* Think “early versions” of The Silmarillion ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/38 "2002-04-08T02:35:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5 time champ \* > \*\* > BTW, **5 time champ** is a he. \*\* Noted, dude. Eorl the Young is correct as the grandfather of the skeleton, Garulf rode Hasufel, and Frar was a Dwarf killed with Balin at Moria. **Chronos** , I’m guessing the Queen of Gondor is Beruthiel, but I don’t know who or what was the prince of her pets… LL-5: How many different types of bird talk to a person (or persons) in _The Hobbit_? LL-6: How many beings touch the Ring of Power at some point in LOTR (not counting flashbacks, like Isildur), and who are they? (I may be sorry for asking this…) ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/39 "2002-04-08T02:45:52Z")
LL-5: Two, ravens and eagles, I believe. LL-6: Six - Bilbo, Gandalf, Frodo, Tom Bombadil, Sam and Gollum, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/40 "2002-04-08T02:47:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph > > LL-6: How many beings touch the Ring of Power at some point in LOTR (not counting flashbacks, like Isildur), and who are they? (I may be sorry for asking this…) \*\* In “Real Time” 1. Bilbo 2. Frodo 3. Gandalf 4. Sam 5. Gollum Flashbacks: 6. Sauron 7. Isildur 8. Déagol 9. Sméagol/Gollum 10. Bilbo [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208.md?page=3)