# Tolkien Geek Challenge **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208 "2002-04-06T19:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/61 "2002-04-10T17:55:54Z")
**5Time Champion** is right on the Variags. Watchstones, however, with that as the accurate title, play a minor role in LOTR and are discussed at length in _Unfinished Tales_. And yes, balrogs (whose _fanar_ may or may not have had wings) were in origin Maiar who followed Melkor into rebellion. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/62 "2002-04-10T22:43:18Z")
Good one, **chronos** , on angainu, but it was used to bind Melko. I don’t think he was named Morgoth in that edition. The two Vala sympathetic to Melko were Makar and Measse, the brother-sister warrior pair, who reveled in battle and blood and violence. They were right out of the Norse eddas. Tulkas was the only one who would visit them, and that was only to hone his own fighting abilities. But Tulkas enjoyed the competition, not the inflicting of pain or the drawing of blood, so even he wasn’t fond of the twins. Their sympathy notwithstanding, after Melko slew the trees, the twins were upset enough to capture and slay one of Melko’s followers. -All from The Book of Lost Tales, V. I, by JRRT ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/63 "2002-04-10T23:45:08Z")
Of course, Balrogs had wings. Haven’t any of you guys looked at the old D&D Monster Manual. BTW, I’ve read LOTR three times, but I couldn’t answer but a couple of questions. You guys have an awesome knowledge of Tolkien. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/64 "2002-04-11T04:15:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5 time champ \* > \*\*It would appear that the 3 Elven-rings and 7 Palantiri were not subjects of everyday conversation in Middle Earth, especially by the Istari. > > Gandalf (and Tolkein) certainly weren’t going to tell Pippin (and the readers) that the Tirith-Stone was still operational. > > Gandalf didn’t realize or even hazard a guess that Denethor, in his despair, had looked at the Tirith-Stone. \*\* Not so fast, **5TC**. Are you saying the Gandalf was _lying_? :eek: Second, didn’t the elves have a Palantir stashed away somewhere that the used for video-teleconferencing with Valinor? Do I recall correctly that it went back to the Valinor on the same ship as the ringbearers? Yet Gandalf didn’t even know what a Palantir looked like. What’s the deal? Were the elves holding out on him or what? ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/65 "2002-04-12T03:06:56Z")
No **Truth Seeker** Gandalf didn’t want Pippin to know there was an operational Palantir at Minas Tirith. Who knows what kind trouble Pippin would have caused had he known. But had Pippin asked point blank, “Gandalf, does Denethor have a Palantir?, and if he does, does he use it?, and if he uses it, why don’t the Nazgul come for him” Second, yes, the Elves did have a Palantir in Emyn Beraid, and one might assume Gandalf had looked into once or twice. But, while on the stairs of Orthanc, the last thing he expected to be launched from the Tower would be one of the Seven Stones. The only way to verify that the missile was truly a Palantir, would be to probe it. But Gandalf rightly feared to do this because a) he didn’t have the “right” to [like Aragorn and to a lesser degree, Denethor] b) he was concerned Sauron would perceive Gandalf’s secret thoughts, that is the true mission of the Fellowship of the Ring was to destroy it in Mt Doom ---
**Author:** ![Nenya\_Elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@Nenya\_Elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nenya_Elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208/66 "2002-04-16T21:01:22Z")
**Northern Piper** , you are correct! 🙂 No more trivia to ask, myself, but this is making me want to go off and get a copy of the Unfinshed, Lost, and otherwise posthumous, Tales. Gonna max out my library card this summer! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tolkien-geek-challenge/102208.md?page=3)