# Tom Bombadil, Black Riders and the Old Forest **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 28, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060 "2015-05-28T18:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/21 "2015-05-29T09:49:20Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Another thought, just a thought, about old Bombadillo; shouldn’t they in Buckland know him, and of Old Man Willow? Seems to me he’d come and see, visit Farmer Maggot, trade in butter and in mushrooms, maybe pipeweed also. Sure, he likes his loneliness, lives in isolation, but he’s such a jovial sort, look how he hosted Frodo. He likes a poem and a song, and so does his leman. Tom knows _about_ Maggot, for sure: he says so. It’s not clear whether he _knows_ him or that they know each other, but it’s possible. But Tom seems to like to keep himself to himself and he won’t even go with the hobbits past the Barrow-Downs; he’s too much of a homebody. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/22 "2015-05-29T10:50:38Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > It is so completely different in flavor, maturity and style from the rest of the books that it cannot make it into any movie without a lot of changes. Unfortunately, Hollywood would likely insist on making him very dark and very scary, removing all of the humor and songs from those scenes. It’s not too late to splice in some footage of Gene Wilder in his Willy Wonka outfit. Is it? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/23 "2015-05-29T12:09:38Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#): > > I agree with Hypno-Toad. Well, duh. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/24 "2015-05-29T12:45:28Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > It’s not too late to splice in some footage of Gene Wilder in his Willy Wonka outfit. > > Is it? Idris Elba as Tom Bombadill. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/25 "2015-05-29T14:20:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > LotR written 1937 \> 1949. “Hippy” was coined around 1960. But Hypno-Toad’s post was written yesterday. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/26 "2015-05-29T14:21:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > LotR written 1937 \> 1949. “Hippy” was coined around 1960. Yeah, but it still fits. To be clear, I like the \*idea \*of Tom. He and Goldberry as a father and mother nature help illustrate how the natural cycle goes on year after year uncaring of the empires of men. And I liked how he provided a deep viewpoint of history with his memories of the barrow treasures and such. So Tom was good from the world-building aspect of the story. And it is an interesting point from earlier about how the Hobbits had to be rescued at the beginning vs their toughened nature at the end. But god I hate the singing. and the whimsical mannerisms. And overall, he cluttered up the narrative to no real advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Lars\_Aruns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Lars\_Aruns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lars_Aruns)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/27 "2015-05-29T14:42:47Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I’ve often thought that this speculative post about Tom raises some good points. Tom’s realm is a place where evil flourishes and in Middle Earth, such a place could only be the realm of similarly-natured being. > > [http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html](http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html) Without even clicking, I just _know_ what essay you’re linking to. Very thought provoking - I disagree, of course, but it was an interesting mental exercise. And if it is the web site I remember, there should also be a very interesting piece on Star Wars as well. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/28 "2015-05-29T17:07:07Z")
Same here. I remember reading it the first time and the fangirl side of my brain was screaming ‘horrors! Travesty! SACRILEGE!’ while the analytic part of my brain was thoughtfully stroking a furry white cat and saying ‘yeeesssss, I can see the evil plan now.’ I like the TB and Goldie interlude. It foreshadows that there will be all these upcoming ‘moments in the woods’ through the story which serve as resting points for the company, perhaps not always the most peaceful or comforting resting point, but a mark of changing scenery and to prepare for what’s ahead. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/29 "2015-05-29T17:11:25Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > But Hypno-Toad’s post was written yesterday. :rolleyes: Hey, you can read time & date markers! Good on you, I’ll bet your momma is so proud of you! ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/30 "2015-05-29T17:12:41Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I’ve often thought that this speculative post about Tom raises some good points. Tom’s realm is a place where evil flourishes and in Middle Earth, such a place could only be the realm of similarly-natured being. > > [http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html](http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html) I like this theory and am adopting it. Tom isn’t affected by the ring or the evil around him because he is worse. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/31 "2015-05-29T17:23:30Z")
> [@Lars\_Aruns](#): > > Without even clicking, I just _know_ what essay you’re linking to. Very thought provoking - I disagree, of course, but it was an interesting mental exercise. And if it is the web site I remember, there should also be a very interesting piece on Star Wars as well. I thought it was going to be the [Bombadil is the Witch-King](http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/bombadil.htm) essay. This one is better though. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/32 "2015-05-29T17:35:13Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Idris Elba as Tom Bombadill. 😛 Or a young Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull. Tom was a mystery and Tolkien liked it that way. Not everything in Middle-Earth had an explanation. I like the idea of Tom being a Genius Loci. He was very strong in his specific place but would have far less power and very little interest as he ventured further from home. He did not operate by the rules and mores of Elf or Man but rather just his own inscrutable whims. The Adventures of Tom Bombadil expand just a little on Tom, but just a little. They are suppose to be some odd writings from the Red Book of West March, I am not sure who added them to the Red Book but it was likely either Samwise or Meriadoc. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/33 "2015-05-29T17:51:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Hey, you can read time & date markers! Good on you, I’ll bet your momma is so proud of you! Don’t make posts like this, take any sniping to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/34 "2015-05-29T18:38:23Z")
I was looking forward to the Old Forest, Tom Bombadil, and Barrow Downs parts of the movies, and was disappointed they weren’t in there. I especially liked Tolkien’s prose in describing The Old Forest. Bombadil was somewhat annoying, but he was interesting and mysterious. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/35 "2015-05-29T18:55:45Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I think one of the most unusual things about the whole Bombadil situation is that JRRT didn’t manage to retcon Tom into his earlier mythos, like he did so much of his later writings. He was the Master of flexing, stretching, adapting, and inventing new material when it came to trying to make it all fit together. And buried deep in some of his manuscripts are rudimentary attempts to make Tom fit better. The [Tom Bombadil poems](http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Tom_Bombadil) are fun, though. And they do “retcon” some of the stuff about Bombadil’s acquaintance with Buckland hobbits like Farmer Maggot, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/36 "2015-05-29T19:08:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Morgyn** : > > If you think about it, the experiences in the Old Forest and at the Barrow Downs, when the hobbits needed help, rather neatly bookends with Pippin & Merry escaping the Orcs in Rohan, and Sam and Frodo in Cirith Ungol. It’s an excellent illustration of how they’d grown and toughened. Or, for that matter, in the Scouring of the Shire, when Merry and Pippin are the biggest badasses for a hundred miles around. Oh, and for what it’s worth, despite being a fan of Bombadil, I think that Jackson made the correct decision in leaving him out of the movies. The books were so long that a great deal had to be cut, and Bombadil was something that could be cut relatively cleanly, leaving few loose ends. Likewise for the Scouring of the Shire. Now, if only Jackson had retained that skill of cutting things that weren’t needed… ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/37 "2015-05-29T19:33:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Now, if only Jackson had retained that skill of cutting things that weren’t needed… Wait a few years; I’m expecting him to announce a Tom Bombadil movie trilogy. Hordes of varmints in Farmer Cotton’s fields will stand in for orcs, and Legolas will drop in to see his old highschool girlfriend Goldberry. Pure $. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/38 "2015-05-29T19:48:30Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Wait a few years; I’m expecting him to announce a Tom Bombadil movie trilogy. Hordes of varmints in Farmer Cotton’s fields will stand in for orcs, and Legolas will drop in to see his old highschool girlfriend Goldberry. Pure $. It would have to be a musical. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/39 "2015-05-29T19:53:43Z")
_In a world of Orcs, Wizards, and magic rings There is one man with the power to defy them. One man, with a magic all his own. This summer, feel the magic, hear the music, in **Yellow Boots 2: Gathering the Lilies** _ ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060/40 "2015-05-29T20:00:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Or, for that matter, in the Scouring of the Shire, when Merry and Pippin are the biggest badasses for a hundred miles around. Well, that sort of thing tends to happen when you’re a zero level commoner who insists on going on a major quest. You come home a year later a 10th level Fighter and everyone is surprised because to them you’re still that commoner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-bombadil-black-riders-and-the-old-forest/721060.md?page=3)