# Tom Brady: If NE win the Super Bowl, is he the best ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 14, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433 "2008-01-14T01:10:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/121 "2008-01-23T03:02:41Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] No, it’s pronounced “Herschel Walker.” [/QUOTE] D - O - C G - O - O - D - E - N ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/122 "2008-01-23T03:19:09Z")
[QUOTE=Darth Sensitive] B-a-r-r-y S-a-n-d-e-r-s [/QUOTE] You take that back. It’s not even true anyways. Last playoff game we got to was when Barry (Blessed Be His Hooves) was here. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/123 "2008-01-23T03:20:38Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] D - O - C G - O - O - D - E - N [/QUOTE] I’m sorry…what’d you say about Roberto Clemente? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/124 "2008-01-23T03:23:46Z")
[QUOTE=Darth Sensitive] B-a-r-r-y S-a-n-d-e-r-s [/QUOTE] No, Barry Sanders needs no “would have” in his argument for the greatest of all time. He’s in the conversation purely based on the merits of his actual career. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/125 "2008-01-23T03:24:52Z")
[QUOTE=Atomicktom] Please elaborate. What the fuck is the Ewing theory? [/QUOTE] It’s a meaningless joke that has no validity whatsoever, but I thought I’d humor him. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/126 "2008-01-23T03:33:04Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] D - O - C G - O - O - D - E - N [/QUOTE] Now, now, even with his career developing the way it did, Vida Blue was a better pitcher than a teammate in the HOF. Then again, when said teammate is Catfish Hunter, that’s not saying much… ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/127 "2008-01-23T04:10:15Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] No, Barry Sanders needs no “would have” in his argument for the greatest of all time. He’s in the conversation purely based on the merits of his actual career. [/QUOTE] Right - but if he would have had a line, there would be no discussion. As it was, without one, he’s in it! ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/128 "2008-01-23T05:29:43Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] No, it’s pronounced “Herschel Walker.” [/QUOTE] You misspelled “Walter Payton”. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/129 "2008-01-23T06:07:46Z")
[QUOTE=Oslo Ostragoth] You misspelled “Walter Payton”. [/QUOTE] Are you guys even reading the thread? The “tossing out RB names” bit is for RBs that would have been in the GOAT conversation if only they hadn’t flamed out for one reason or another. (Ricky Williams, Bo Jackson, etc…) In other words, Sweetness is the _very last name_ that should be included in that list, since he is, in fact, the GOAT. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/130 "2008-01-23T07:08:47Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] Are you guys even reading the thread? The “tossing out RB names” bit is for RBs that would have been in the GOAT conversation if only they hadn’t flamed out for one reason or another. (Ricky Williams, Bo Jackson, etc…) In other words, Sweetness is the _very last name_ that should be included in that list, since he is, in fact, the GOAT. [/QUOTE] Does Tecmo Bo count? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/131 "2008-01-23T14:00:02Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] Are you guys even reading the thread? The “tossing out RB names” bit is for RBs that would have been in the GOAT conversation if only they hadn’t flamed out for one reason or another. (Ricky Williams, Bo Jackson, etc…) In other words, Sweetness is the _very last name_ that should be included in that list, since he is, in fact, the GOAT. [/QUOTE] You misspelled “Barry Sanders”. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/132 "2008-01-23T14:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] You misspelled “Barry Sanders”. [/QUOTE] That’s a weird way of spelling “Jim Brown” (I thought this one was pretty clear) ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/133 "2008-01-23T15:13:23Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] That’s a weird way of spelling “Jim Brown” (I thought this one was pretty clear) [/QUOTE] Jim Brown is the only other person I’ll accept for the best running back of all time. It pretty much boils down to what kind of running style you like more. I’ve got nothing but love for Jim Brown. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/134 "2008-01-23T17:03:34Z")
Jim Brown is good and everything, but Barry went to Oklahoma State. Therefore, the man from my school is the GOAT. What do you mean that’s not how it works? UT thinks VY is the second coming of Christ! ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/135 "2008-01-23T18:01:38Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] You misspelled “Barry Sanders”. [/QUOTE] It’s completely different thread, but Barry is horribly, horribly overrated as an NFL running back. No back that has that many negative plays can be considered the best ever, regardless of how many highlights he has. No back has created more 3rd and 13 situations, especially crippling when the running games primary purpose is to avoid that, especially in the Run and Shoot system he spent the bulk of his career playing. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/136 "2008-01-23T18:53:54Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] It’s completely different thread, but Barry is horribly, horribly overrated as an NFL running back. No back that has that many negative plays can be considered the best ever, regardless of how many highlights he has. No back has created more 3rd and 13 situations, especially crippling when the running games primary purpose is to avoid that, especially in the Run and Shoot system he spent the bulk of his career playing. [/QUOTE] Horribly horribly overrated? What, did you steal Sal Palontonio’s opinion or something? It was even retarded when he stated it. It’s not about highlights or lowlights. It’s production and numbers. I’m pretty sure that if you asked his peers who the best is, they’d form a consensus. Barry and Jim Brown are the two best. We can quibble about who is better between the two, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/137 "2008-01-23T19:02:01Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] No back that has that many negative plays can be considered the best ever, regardless of how many highlights he has. [/QUOTE] Sure he can, if he made up for them, and considering he averaged 5 yards a carry for his career (compare _that_ to Smith, Payton, Dickerson or Martin!), he apparently did. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/138 "2008-01-23T19:19:59Z")
The Lions were a losing team his entire career. That’s not due to lack of talent, it’s because for every 80-yard Barry TD run he’d stall a 4 drives in their own territory. The guy was elusive and exciting to watch. He had some amazing skills, but in highlighting those skills he hurt his team too often to be considered GOAT. Don’t get me wrong, I’d take him over just about anyone, but not over any of those guys in the top 6 or 7. Go down the list of all the GOAT candidates and almost every single one led his team to consistent success. Payton, Emmit, Brown, Faulk, Dorsett. It’s that consistency from the running back position that created the meme defense and running games win championships. Barry is the NFL equivalent of Jim Rice, homerun hitter who strikes out too much. Payton, Emmit and Brown were Mantle, Ted Williams and Wille Mays. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/139 "2008-01-23T19:36:12Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Horribly horribly overrated? What, did you steal Sal Palontonio’s opinion or something? It was even retarded when he stated it. It’s not about highlights or lowlights. It’s production and numbers. I’m pretty sure that if you asked his peers who the best is, they’d form a consensus. Barry and Jim Brown are the two best. We can quibble about who is better between the two, but that’s it. [/QUOTE] What you cal “Sal Palontonios opinion” is widely held. Maybe not in Detroit, but among the remaining 99% of the population. As a matter of fact, you seem to have missed out not only on the backlash against Barry in his post-career days, but the backlash concerning the possibility that the original backlash was too severe. If I was putting together a football team designed to win games, and go far in the playoffs for one season, Barry Sanders wouldn’t be in my top 10. He wouldn’t sniff Emmitt. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433/140 "2008-01-23T19:40:05Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] YAC shouldn’t necesarily be counted against the QB. Hitting the right receiver, and hitting him in stride, are critical skills. A lot of QBs hit the wrong guy, resulting in an instant tackle after a short pass, or make their guy slow up or dive for the ball, negating YAC. If Brady picks the right guy as a recipient of a short pass and it’s made for a long gain, the receiver should get some credit but so should Brady. [/QUOTE] I always credit the QB with all yardage gained until someone touches the receiver. If the QB finds someone wide open behind coverage and gets him the ball, it’s all on him. If he gets the ball to a receiver who has a Safety bearing down on him, but the receiver breaks the tackle and goes the distance, then everything after the touch is all on the receiver. [QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Well, it could be a great game. It’d now have to surpass that Ravens game, which was a pretty sweet-ass game if you ask me. [/QUOTE] It’s lines like this that [this xkcd](http://www.xkcd.com/37/) was written for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-if-ne-win-the-super-bowl-is-he-the-best-ever/433433.md?page=8)