# Tom Brady \> Michael Jordan as single most dominant athlete in the history of team sports **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 8, 2021, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421 "2021-02-08T03:46:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/61 "2021-02-08T21:45:19Z")
The small league is a reasonable objection (although I might counter that Jordan didn’t start winning until the league was diluted enough for him to win with Pippen). Other arguments (not all made by you) just aren’t convincing with me. Russell was a winner at every level; the Celtics didn’t win championships until he arrived and stopped when he left. He won 5 MVPs (same as Jordan) back when the players voted. His teammates considered him the best player. I’m not saying he’s unarguably the best (I might put LBJ first) but he should be in the discussion and anybody who dismisses him out of hand doesn’t understand basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/62 "2021-02-08T21:54:23Z")
I watched _The Last Dance_ (excellent Netflix documentary series) and the things people were saying about playing against Michael Jordan were scary. If you gave him a reason to be mad at you, even inadvertently, he would go out of his way to destroy you on the court. He could do it at will. All it took was the proper motivation and he could shut you down and embarrass you. I’ve never heard that about any other athlete. Even playing against other people who were the best basketball players in the world, he had the ability to single-handedly dominate anyone. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/63 "2021-02-08T22:00:08Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > (I might put LBJ first) \ ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/64 "2021-02-08T22:00:16Z")
For football, I would put Don Hutson up there, some of his records still stand 50+ years later. Of course, a) The game has changed\*, and b) Some of those records were during WWII when many good opponents were overseas. > **[Don Hutson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Hutson)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > > Donald Montgomery Hutson (January 31, 1913 – June 26, 1997) was an American professional football player and assistant coach in the National Football League (NFL). He played as an end and spent his entire 11-year professional career with the Green Bay Packers. Under head coach Curly Lambeau, Hutson led the Packers to four NFL Championship Games, winning three: 1936, 1939, and 1944. > Hutson joined the Packers in 1935 and played 11 seasons befor... Brian - like the record for triples in baseball is likely never to be broken ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/65 "2021-02-08T22:11:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t think anyone can realistically say that Brady isn’t the best football player of all time. That’s a ridiculous statement, IMO. Jim Brown and Jerry Rice are most definitely in the conversation of best football player of all time. Not to mention defensive players Lawrence Taylor or Joe Green or Dick Butkis. For my money the best NFL player ever is Jerry Rice. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/66 "2021-02-08T22:13:41Z")
I think you’re right, and that a big piece of it is that dominance in some sports means something entirely different than it does in others. I mean, the best hockey, basketball and pitchers in baseball can singlehandedly change the course of a game solely through their own individual play. Someone like a Jordan, Gretzky or a Pedro Martinez can dominate an individual game more or less independent of their teammates. Football doesn’t work that way; Brady is by far the best quarterback in history, but he can’t do it by himself. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/67 "2021-02-08T22:40:28Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Football doesn’t work that way; Brady is by far the best quarterback in history, but he can’t do it by himself. Objectively, it is the case that neither could Gretzky, Jordan or Pedro. Their teams lost many games, and they didn’t win the championship far more often than they did. Early in his career Jordan was clearly the best basketball player in the world LONG before the Bulls were a championship level team; they just didn’t have a good enough supporting cast. In 1986-1987 Jordan sored 37.1 PPG and had become a really, really good defensive player; the Bulls went 40-42. Pedro always lost if his hitters scored no runs, and usually lost if they only scored one or two. Soccer? No soccer player can completely dominate the game in game after game if his team blows; the sport doesn’t work like that. A team sport that would allow true one player domination is broken, or the player isn’t playing in the correct level of competition. Sports aren’t supposed to be like Quidditch. Maybe in one game a player can totally dominate (and in his second-highest scoring game ever, Jordan dropped 64… and the Bulls lost) but sports are about a grind. You need a supporting cast. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/68 "2021-02-08T22:50:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Early in his career Jordan was clearly the best basketball player in the world LONG before the Bulls were a championship level team; they just didn’t have a good enough supporting cast. That’s the thing though; does “most dominant athlete” even mean they have to play for a winning team, much less a championship winning one? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/69 "2021-02-08T23:28:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Even playing against other people who were the best basketball players in the world, he had the ability to single-handedly dominate anyone. > **[Larry Bird vs. Magic Johnson Comparison](https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/larry_bird_vs_magic_johnson.htm)** > > Head-to-head comparison between the NBA stars Magic Johnson and Larry Bird that includes championships won, honors and awards obtained, regular season and playoffs stats and other data put side by side. Evidently Larry Bird wasn’t one of the people Magic could dominate at will. Larry’s career, while shorter, ended with Bird scoring more points overall. AFAIK they remained friends. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/70 "2021-02-09T00:18:01Z")
Hell, Brady isn’t, without question, the best QB of all time. Peyton Manning has a higher average approximate value, and several people have higher QB ratings for their careers. Rodgers with a pretty good sample size to back it up. If you asked 1,000 people to pick an all time NBA team, Jordan is starting on 990 of them. You couldn’t say the same about Brady. Or Jim Brown. Jerry Rice, probably. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/71 "2021-02-09T00:26:10Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Hell, Brady isn’t, without question, the best QB of all time. Peyton Manning has a higher average approximate value Brady has played a career ten percent longer, and the difference in average approxiamte value is miniscule. Brady has a higher QB rating. No overall value stat shows any statistically significant difference between the two. Brady is slightly better in the playoffs, in a LOT more playoff games. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/72 "2021-02-09T00:30:54Z")
And if there is no statistical significant difference between the two (or Rodgers) then you’re saying you agree with me? ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/73 "2021-02-09T00:44:29Z")
Yep and further evidence is how the England cricket team devised an **entire new strategy never used before** for their series against Australia **just to stop Bradman**. That strategy was to have the fast bowlers deliberately bowl balls aimed at the body to intimidate, force a mistake, and physically hurt the Australian batsmen. And they packed fielders on the leg side (the left hand side of a right handed batsman and the right hand side of a left handed batsman) where catches would most likely be taken as a result of the batsman being unable to get out of the way of a dangerous ball. In those days there were no protective gear besides leg pads which were no good for balls aimed at the arms, heart, neck and head. If they could intimidate Bradman and knock off 20-30 runs each time he came to bat compared to his career average then knocking off runs from everyone else who averaged well below would be easy. And victory would be assured. And it was. Bradman still had an excellent series finishing with the second highest average (56) but 56 was a long way down from his standard and only one other Australian batsman averaged above 40. Hardly any footage exists but this short package tells the story [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Zy9Dycf0E7g/hqdefault.jpg "Bodyline 1932/32 Series :: Footage") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy9Dycf0E7g) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/74 "2021-02-09T00:53:09Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > And if there is no statistical significant difference between the two (or Rodgers) then you’re saying you agree with me? The largest difference is in playoffs. Brady is clearly ahead. That to my mind clearly breaks the tie. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/75 "2021-02-09T00:56:05Z")
And why is Brady clearly better than Aaron Rodgers? ---
**Author:** ![TiberiusNeroClaudius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@TiberiusNeroClaudius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TiberiusNeroClaudius)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/76 "2021-02-09T01:34:13Z")
About 20 years ago Stats Inc would publish books with various essays/conversations about baseball. In it one statistician remarked how difficult it was to devise a system that rated Michael Jordan the best player in the NBA…as he was. Let’s hear it for the only man able to hold Jordan under 20 points per game: Dean Smith. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/77 "2021-02-09T01:48:49Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > And why is Brady clearly better than Aaron Rodgers? His career has been about a hundred games longer. Rodgers is four seasons away, at least, from matching Brady, and that’s assuming he wins a few more championships. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/78 "2021-02-09T02:03:47Z")
Lord knows, I’m not an NBA fan, but just to throw out there… Michael Jordan dominated the NBA. The NBA changed their rules because of Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt Chamberlain has had a bigger overall effect on the game than Michael Jordan. Back to football. The greatest running back was Walter Payton. He would run past you, over you, around you. He could catch (I think he still holds the Bears receiving record (talk about “tallest midget”)), he still has the best QB rating in Bears history. He was the total package. And, in a 13 year career at a bruising position, he missed exactly 1 game. That being said, he broke the rushing record of James Brown, who played a shorter career during seasons with fewer games. That sounds like a damned good reason for Brown to be in the conversation. And, you know what ALL of these players have in common? They’re ALL known for practicing harder than anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/79 "2021-02-09T02:49:47Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > The NBA changed their rules because of Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt Chamberlain has had a bigger overall effect on the game than Michael Jordan. George Mikan caused the NBA to create the goaltending rule, widen the foul lane, and institute the shot clock. In many ways he created the position of big man that Chamberlain took even further. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421/80 "2021-02-09T03:13:17Z")
Yeah I’d say that Brady is better than Rodgers the way that a high school valedictorian is a better student than a freshman with a 4.0 GPA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-brady-michael-jordan-as-single-most-dominant-athlete-in-the-history-of-team-sports/932421.md?page=5)