# Tom Cruise, you are an ass. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000 "2003-06-19T19:52:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/41 "2003-06-20T03:21:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*I don’t think you can claim all Scientologists are all “asses.” I disagree with pretty much all that Scientology teaches, but that doesn’t mean you can stereotype them. \*\* Nah, I still hold true to my thought that they’re asses. People that gullible, that willing to believe completely nonsensical ideas from a hack writer whose own paranoia made him even nuttier than most jars of Jiffy; people that willing to hand over their lives and money to those who preach a hackneyed fantasy involving aliens; yes, these people are asses. Scientologists belong to, not a religion, not even a cult, but a ethics-lacking, cut-throat, money-grubbing, life-destroying business which masquerades as a religion (and gleefully hides behind that sham) while _still_ strongly coming across as a cult. When it comes to throwing a block party of intelligent, rational ideas, I normally skip over the houses sheltering any religion, period. But if I had to make a choice between Scientology and even the most backward Christian off-shoot, you’d betcha I’d be heading to the lumberyard so that I could nail together my own personal cross to carry about. I understand that you weren’t defending Scientologists, and I do know where you were going with your point; however, I disagree with you in the strongest manner possible. Scientologists, much like psychics and science quacks, spread poisonous baloney between the Wonderbread slices of life. Asses. Assi? A lot of 'em, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/42 "2003-06-20T04:26:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*I’ll bet the Scientologist leadership threatened to let a few cats out of a few bags unless Tom played ball . . . \*\* Oh come on now, **Eve**. You seriously expect us to believe that Cruise is gay? Ever hear the rumor that Patrick Stewart’s gay? I heard it a lot from my gay friends when the movie [Jeffery](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0113464) came out. Nevermind that at the time the tabloids were filled with stories of Stewart and one of the _female_ producers from TNG doing the nasty. I’m not saying Cruise ain’t gay, but I’m gonna need more evidence than simply rumors. (Don’t need photos of Cruise scampering about nekkid in hot pursuit of some bodybuilder, mind you, but more than just “The word on the street in Hollywood is…”) ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/43 "2003-06-20T04:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by d\_redguy \* > \*\*This is reason enough to qualify Tom Cruise as an ass. > [L. Ron Hubbard](http://www.marriagesolutions.org/img/l-ron-hubbard2.jpg) \*\* Jesus Christ, _that’s_ L. Ron Hubbard?!? \ And, since I just seem to be a font of information today, I believe it says that the money will be used for Scientologist schools. Y’know, they weren’t doing a good enough job of brainwashing their kids at home. “Well, _yes_, you have to pay more as you get further into the school. Think of it this way: it’s preparing you for paying for college.” ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/44 "2003-06-20T05:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by d\_redguy \* > \*\* > > [Nicole Kidman](http://www.adorocinema.com/personalidades/atores/nicole-kidman/nicole-kidman06.jpg) > > [L. Ron Hubbard](http://www.marriagesolutions.org/img/l-ron-hubbard2.jpg) > > \*\* Nicole. 🙂 L. Ron Hubbard. :mad: :mad: :mad: :dubious: :wally Damn, but you can see where they removed his horns in that photo! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/45 "2003-06-20T06:38:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Scientologists belong to, not a religion, not even a cult, but a ethics-lacking, cut-throat, money-grubbing, life-destroying business which masquerades as a religion (and gleefully hides behind that sham) while still strongly coming across as a cult. Even if all of the description of Scientology that you have given is correct, and they may well be, that doesn’t mean that they are all asses. They are not all involved in the deception, scaming and so forth. They sound pretty naive to me. What evil things has Tom Cruise done? Or John Travolta? I’ve been told by some folks that might know that Travolta is a really nice guy – polite, pleasant and friendly. I don’t like religious persecution of any kind – and that is happening to Scientologists, especially in parts of Europe where they are not allowed to teach. Have any of you had bad experiences with members of this group? Please keep in mind that I do _not_ support Scientology. I don’t even know a scientologist personally. I do know a couple of folks that were interested in dianetics before much was known about Hubbard. They are both bright and lovely people. At any rate, I don’t think that the Federal government has any business giving money to religions even if it is for charitable purposes. I don’t believe in those fake television psychics either. But that doesn’t mean that people who do believe them are asses. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/46 "2003-06-20T08:14:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*I don’t believe in those fake television psychics either. But that doesn’t mean that people who do believe them are asses. \*\* Right. That you don’t believe in them doesn’t make them asses. That they _do_ believe in them makes them asses. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/47 "2003-06-20T09:54:37Z")
**Zoe** : Your openminded view only works if the other guy is not out to kill you. Scientology _is_ a criminal organization, and it _will_ kill you to further its own ends. After all, we can’t treat La Cosa Nostra as just another fraternal organization, and we can’t treat the Cali cartel as just another multinational corporation. [Lisa McPherson, dead at 36 from complications related to malnutrition and severe dehydration.](http://www.lisamcpherson.org/) Lisa was treated in accordance with Scientology’s offical dogma: She was put on the Introspection Rundown after a psychotic break, which means Cult officials removed her from the hospital she had been placed in after he car accident and moved her to isolation in a Cult-owned hospital. She was apparently denied food and water for the duration of her stay, with predictable results. McPherson’s death cannot be attributed to any cause other than Scientologist maltreatment. She was physically fine when she was picked up after the accident, and was only taken to the hospital because the EMTs decided that she needed mental health care. Which, of course, she did: She had removed all of her clothing and was saying she didn’t want to hurt herself. Scientologists do not believe in real mental health care, calling psychiatrists `Psychs’ and blaming them for the world’s ills. The McPherson case is extreme, but it points out a common trend: The Cult of Scientology is pathologically paranoid and given to bizarre, harmful practices. More of them are outlined [right here](http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/dianetics_abuse.html?FACTNet). Scientology’s major weapon are lawsuits and harassment. Case in point: [The Cult’s interminable but eventually losing battle against Larry Wollershiem](http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/press1.htm?FACTNet). The CoS paid 50-70 million dollars over the course of 12 years to wage a legal battle against Wollershiem after he won a judgement against them for brainwashing him. Wollershiem’s eventual take? 2.5 million, but only after having to endure the Cult’s harassment. Another legal, and extralegal, battle the CoS is waging is the fight against [Tom Padgett](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=192013). (Read my post for details.) Tom left the Cult, his wife didn’t, and now Tom is on the CoS’s Official Shitlist, having been Fair Gamed and generally harassed both in and out of the courtroom. After reading about all of this, it’s hard for me to believe that _anyone_ thinks Scientology is anything but a criminal group. Most religions suffer from nothing more than sexual hangups; Scientology suffers from outright paranoia and a vicious disposition. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/48 "2003-06-20T11:04:14Z")
$cientology blackmails most of its high profile members into staying and supporting it. It recruits them when they are down - eg via its drug addiction centres - with the dianetics/counselling crap. Cue most of them spilling their deepest darkest secrets. Whereas your priest or doctor or psychologist wouldn’t then hold you over a barrel for the rest of your life because you admitted - for example - to bisexuality or homosexuality, or something that might affect your box office - $cientology has no qualms. I feel some sympathy for many of the high profile stars that continue to have to support this Cult of Hell, but it was stupidity, weakness and self-centredness that got them in there in the first place. If you look at $cientology, it is essentially about worshipping yourself. Bar satanism, it strikes me as one of the the most egocentric faiths around. It is all self-analysis, very little analysis of a relationship with an external deity, or fellow human beings, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/49 "2003-06-20T13:12:45Z")
I am going to regret ever attempting to explain my personal views on this message board. Let’s get one thing straight – I believe Scientology is seriously screwed up. I am not defending that “faith” whatsoever. However, there **are** people who belonged to the CoS and realized what a horrible organization it is. They then attempted to leave – some successfully, some not. Are these people “asses”? No. I have a deep and abiding distrust of any type of stereotype. I have no problem saying “Scientology is wrong about many things.” I DO have a problem when you automatically assume that everyone associated with Scientology automatically toes the company line about every single thing the church teaches. Now, it may be that 99 percent of all Scientologists toe that line. Hell, it may be 99.99 percent. But because of that .01 percent, you can’t say “all Scientologists are asses.” ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/50 "2003-06-20T13:21:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skammer \* > \*\*Well, what would the money be going to? A Scientologist-operated soup kitchen? Back-to-work training for welfare mothers? A new heater for the church-run orpanage? I think these are the kind of “faith-based initiatives” the administration had in mind. And if they give that kind of money to Tom, I’m leery but I won’t argue. There had better be some pretty good monitoring going on to make sure the money goes where it’s intended. > > OTOH – a new worship center? Pamphlets? A big gold statue of L. Ron Hubbard? Bite me, Tom. > > (I’m sorry if the linked article includes these facts. It’s not coming up for me). \*\* Problem with this scenario is that it’s exactly the opposite of their stance on abortion: “We cannot give **any** money to organizations which in any way promote, help facilitate, schedule, discuss the _possability_ of abortion, because by doing so, we actually in a sense fund abortion, since even if they use _our_ $$ to give dietary information to pregnant women, that ‘frees us’ other $$ to fund abortion related tasks.” So - if they are absolutely serious about their faith based initiatives and the lines drawn within allowing public dollars to go to fund programs yet not ‘funding religions’, then they should cease immediately their stance re: funding birth control and women’s health issues both nationally and internationally. Given my ‘faith’ in the current administrations internal consistency, you’ll forgive me, I’d hope, if I decide not to hold my breath waiting. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/51 "2003-06-20T13:22:48Z")
Wow. Seperated at birth? [L. Ron Hubbard](http://www.marriagesolutions.org/img/l-ron-hubbard2.jpg) and [Sydney Greenstreet](http://us.imdb.com/Name?Greenstreet,+Sydney) You decide. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/52 "2003-06-20T13:27:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > I am going to regret ever attempting to explain my personal views on this message board. > > Let’s get one thing straight – I believe Scientology is seriously screwed up. I am not defending that “faith” whatsoever. > > However, there **are** people who belonged to the CoS and realized what a horrible organization it is. They then attempted to leave – some successfully, some not. Are these people “asses”? No. They were asses when they joined, then they smartened up. > [@](#): > > I have a deep and abiding distrust of any type of stereotype. I have no problem saying “Scientology is wrong about many things.” I DO have a problem when you automatically assume that everyone associated with Scientology automatically toes the company line about every single thing the church teaches. They do because they are required to. As has already been noted, the SoC spies on its members, particularly the high-profile ones. When a member does leave, he or she finds himself a victim of harassment in order to keep himself or herself from talking. > [@](#): > > Now, it may be that 99 percent of all Scientologists toe that line. Hell, it may be 99.99 percent. But because of that .01 percent, you can’t say “all Scientologists are asses.” That’s ridiculous. The SoC is an evil organization that bilks weak, vulnerable people, period. People who believie in that “planet Xeniu” rubbish, that is ALL Scientologists, are asses. I grow very tired of this “you can’t generalize” garbage. **Lisserner** had an excellent point in that definitions are not generalizations. There may have been one or two Nazis who didn’t want to kill Jews; would you say on that basis that “Nazis weren’t all evil”? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/53 "2003-06-20T13:29:46Z")
Who said “gay?” Is the word “gay” anywhere in my post? Scientology requires long, agonizing confessions and regressions and dredging up of _every_ dark past secret . . . And they use that to keep their celeb members in line. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/54 "2003-06-20T13:33:07Z")
**Sauraon** , I know you might be sensitive to the generalization issue because of the other thread, but the SBC and the SoC are in no way comparable. The SoC’s control over their members’ lives and beliefs makes the Catholic church look like freewheeling anarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/55 "2003-06-20T13:51:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > I grow very tired of this “you can’t generalize” garbage. **Lisserner** had an excellent point in that definitions are not generalizations. There may have been one or two Nazis who didn’t want to kill Jews; would you say on that basis that “Nazis weren’t all evil”? Yes – if there were Nazis who objected to the fundamentals of Nazism and yet weren’t able to leave, it’s illogical to say that “All Nazis were evil.” You can say “Nazism is evil.” But by the word’s very definition, when you put “all” in front of a group of people, you don’t allow for any exclusion whatsoever. For example (and to draw from the other thread), someone might look at the Southern Baptist Convention’s directives and say “All Southern Baptists are fundamentalists.” As I hope I (and others) have illustrated, that is not a true statement. Why is this a difficult concept? I’m not talking political correctness; I’m talking basic grammar. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/56 "2003-06-20T13:59:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*Yes – if there were Nazis who objected to the fundamentals of Nazism and yet weren’t able to leave, it’s illogical to say that “All Nazis were evil.” > > You can say “Nazism is evil.” But by the word’s very definition, when you put “all” in front of a group of people, you don’t allow for any exclusion whatsoever. Exclsuions should not be allowed. If you wear the uniform, you are allying yourself with the principles that the uniform represents, and that make you evil. > [@](#): > > For example (and to draw from the other thread), someone might look at the Southern Baptist Convention’s directives and say “All Southern Baptists are fundamentalists.” As I hope I (and others) have illustrated, that is not a true statement. The SBC says that all Southern Baptists are fundamentalist. From your wife’s post about the newsletter, surely you picked up that the SBC no longer considers nonfundamentalists to be Southern Baptists, or at least not their sort of Southern Baptists. > [@](#): > > Why is this a difficult concept? I’m not talking political correctness; I’m talking basic grammar. No, you’re not. You’re taking about the meanings of words, which is the field of semantics, not grammar. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/57 "2003-06-20T14:10:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*Who said “gay?” Is the word “gay” anywhere in my post? Scientology requires long, agonizing confessions and regressions and dredging up of _every_ dark past secret . . . And they use that to keep their celeb members in line. \*\* Since you brought it up, what dark past secret does Cruise have? How do you know they dredge up every dark past secret? ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/58 "2003-06-20T14:11:39Z")
I’m sorry to interrupt the fight you guys are (still) having, but I have something to say that’s actually related to the OP. Now, in the news story, it says that the federal money would be used for “Scientologist schools”. However, take that with a grain of salt, because the source only knows that Cruise met with someone at the Department of Education. First (and this is really to satisfy my own curiosity), are these pre-existing schools, or would the money be used to found the schools? Second, according to the [“Faith-based and community initiatives”](http://www.hhs.gov/fbci/), there aren’t any grants for schools. After-school and mentoring programs, yes, but not schools per se. Where would the basis for giving Scientologists money come from? And third, do other private religious schools get federal money? Say, Catholic schools (they’re the only ones I can think of off the top of my head)? ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/59 "2003-06-20T14:16:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*How do you know they dredge up every dark past secret? \*\* [Here.](http://www.clambake.org/archive/techniques/) Last three or four paragraphs. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000/60 "2003-06-20T14:17:07Z")
I’m not going to say a word against the Scientologists. In reputation for holding grudges, they make Rudy Giuliani look forgiving. And for those who do, the minute they figure out how to fit rattle snakes into Email Boxes, I’d be worried if I were you\*. \*a few people who have been outspoken against Scientology in California in the past have found rattlesnakes in their mailboxes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-cruise-you-are-an-ass/183000.md?page=4)