# Tom DeLay calls Obama a "Marxist" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029 "2008-01-10T21:30:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/61 "2008-02-26T11:49:48Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] No. Socialism is about collective ownership of the means of production. Not ownership of the means of production by one person, even if he’s so all powerful he can call himself “the government”. [/QUOTE] Oh, he had people. Lots of people. He owned them, too. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/62 "2008-02-26T13:03:58Z")
Actually, someone who declares that [there is no room for further cuts in federal spending](http://www.reason.com/news/show/34711.html) has given more compelling evidence of a socialist mindset than Sen. Obama… ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/63 "2008-02-26T13:28:02Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Oh, he had people. Lots of people. He owned them, too. [/QUOTE] You seem to be making my point for me. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/64 "2008-02-26T15:00:08Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Frenzied sheep? What a weird image. I don’t think I’m going to sleep well tonight. [/QUOTE] You might not want to see [this movie](http://www.blacksheep-themovie.com/) then… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/65 "2008-02-26T15:39:08Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] You seem to be making my point for me. [/QUOTE] Good. Saves you the bother. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/66 "2008-02-27T04:40:18Z")
See, sugar subsidies are not socialism, since sugar companies are privately owned. And they are not redistribution of wealth, since those private individuals are already fantastically wealthy. I guess we have to call that sort of government action Republicanism Tris ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/67 "2008-02-27T08:27:22Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] And they are not redistribution of wealth, since those private individuals are already fantastically wealthy. [/QUOTE] Huh. I always thought that when folks talked about redistribution of wealth, they were talking about taking from the (generally) rich to give to the poor, no matter how much the rich had left in the end. Was I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/68 "2008-02-27T09:25:51Z")
[QUOTE=Dumbguy] Tom Delay fucks dogs. I’ve seen the pictures. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but he doesn’t let anyone know it! ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/69 "2008-02-28T03:19:07Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] I hear now that Obama’s actual name is Barack Muhammad Hussein Obama, at least acording to some right-wing nut cases. I guess the Hussein middle name by itself wasn’t enough to whip the sheep into a frenzy. [/QUOTE] I see now that the aforementioned Bill Cunningham was hired by the McCain campaign to whip up the crowd before Saint John’s appearance in Cincinnati. I am a little disappointed that he seems to have dropped the Muhammad part of Obama’s name. I mean, it’s on the birth certificate, isn’t it? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/70 "2008-02-28T04:31:19Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] Huh. I always thought that when folks talked about redistribution of wealth, they were talking about taking from the (generally) rich to give to the poor, no matter how much the rich had left in the end. Was I mistaken? [/QUOTE] Probably not. You might have been whooshed, though. **Princhester** , you might be getting into “no true Scotsman” territory, in post #57. At least for some observers. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/71 "2008-02-28T05:45:29Z")
At least some observers of any given debate are going to be pig ignorant of the subject matter. So what? If you want to advance an argument as to why my comments were a “no true scotsman” you go ahead. If it involves suggesting that I am distorting the definition of socialism by denying that “community ownership/control of the means of production” encompasses a nation where the means of production is subject to the absolute control of a dictator who receives (to quote the person I was debating) “the vast majority” of wealth produced, you go right ahead. Try not to distort the meanings of the words “community” and “ownership” as you do it. I could do with a good laugh. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/72 "2008-02-28T05:54:12Z")
If I read this right, I agree, without community ownership and common empowerment, this sort of oligarchy has no resemblance to socialism. If JP Morgan had bought all the means of production, it wouldn’t be socialism. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/73 "2008-02-28T07:09:06Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] I see now that the aforementioned Bill Cunningham was hired by the McCain campaign to whip up the crowd before Saint John’s appearance in Cincinnati. I am a little disappointed that he seems to have dropped the Muhammad part of Obama’s name. I mean, it’s on the birth certificate, isn’t it? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Actually, his birth certificate reads Barack Muhammad Hussein Bin Laden Qaddafi JohnWilkesBooth Obama. A friend of mine told me that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/74 "2008-02-28T07:36:03Z")
Female dogs, of coure. Nothin’ queer about Ol’ Tom. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/75 "2008-02-28T15:35:58Z")
Tom Delay reminds me vaguely of Uncle Rico. How long until he stops living his glory days do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/76 "2008-02-28T17:19:28Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] DeLay’s quote is that Senator Obama is “… a very smart [Marxist] — he doesn’t let anyone know it.” [/QUOTE] If he’s a Marxist but very quiet about it, does that make him a Harpo Marxist? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/77 "2008-02-28T17:33:05Z")
I am sure there are plenty of trees in Illinois, but a lampost will do in a pinch. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/78 "2008-02-28T17:44:39Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] At least some observers of any given debate are going to be pig ignorant of the subject matter. So what? If you want to advance an argument as to why my comments were a “no true scotsman” you go ahead. If it involves suggesting that I am distorting the definition of socialism by denying that “community ownership/control of the means of production” encompasses a nation where the means of production is subject to the absolute control of a dictator who receives (to quote the person I was debating) “the vast majority” of wealth produced, you go right ahead. Try not to distort the meanings of the words “community” and “ownership” as you do it. I could do with a good laugh. [/QUOTE] Nah, I’m not really that committed to the notion that the Ba’ath Party was actually socialist. Some people, however, seem to think that reality is, in large part, a matter of self-description. So, if a church congregation, f’rinstance, describes itself as Christian, it’s considered impolite when outsiders attempt to arbitrarily deprive them of the label. And if a political party (particularly one that controls the government), wishes to refer to itself as “Socialist” (note the capitalization, please), lots of people who are opposed to socialism on general principle are going to take them at their word, using the same etiquette-based logic. I’m good with your argument that the Ba’athists weren’t, though. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/79 "2008-02-28T17:58:37Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Nah, I’m not really that committed to the notion that the Ba’ath Party was actually socialist. [/QUOTE] It certainly convinced itself that it was. From [The Syrian Encyclopedia](http://www.damascus-online.com/se/hist/baath_party.htm): Baath Party, formally the Baath Arab Socialist Party: Political party and movement influential among Arab communities in the Middle East, especially in Syria and Iraq. The Baath Party was from the beginning a secular Arab nationalist party. Socialism (not Marxism) was quickly adopted as the party’s economic dogma: “Unity [Arab], Freedom [from colonialism], and Socialism” are still the watchwords. See also [this review](http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0034-6705%28196710%2929%3A4%3C557%3AAS%3E2.0.CO%3B2-A&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage) of \*The Arab Ba’th Socialist Party: History, Ideology, and Organization \* by Kamel S. Abu Jaber. Specifially, the section titled “Arab Socialism”. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029/80 "2008-02-28T23:01:37Z")
[QUOTE=Green Bean] Actually, his birth certificate reads Barack Muhammad Hussein Bin Laden Qaddafi JohnWilkesBooth Obama. A friend of mine told me that. [/QUOTE] Your friend is wrong. He left out “Lenin Stalin Mussolini Hitler” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-delay-calls-obama-a-marxist/433029.md?page=5)