# Tom Petty versus John Mellencamp **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 21, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479 "2017-10-21T21:17:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/41 "2017-10-23T18:08:18Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Did Mellancamp ever express personal loneliness or bitterness or was he always the voice of the small town? I don’t get that introspective feeling from him - at all - and I feel that is a key difference-maker between him and Petty. And also, where is Mellancamp’s song of transcendence? Of personal discovery? How about “Minutes to Memories”? Other than the loneliness or bitterness (there are plenty of other emotions that can give rise to introspection), it seems to fit the bill. Aside re “Jack and Diane”: the part that really makes the song isn’t the verses or the chorus, it’s the ‘Bible belt/hold onto sixteen’ bridge. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/42 "2017-10-23T18:20:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > As to the OP, John Mellencamp definitely has his moments and I think the quality of his lyrics are being a little underappreciated here. “Authority Song” is outstanding. In general, though, I’d agree Petty’s body of work is much deeper and more impressive, and frankly it has aged better. I’m more of a Mellencamp fan than a Petty fan, but I have to agree with the last sentence as well as the first two. > [@](#): > > Mellencamp had very nice words about Tom Petty: > > "Tom Petty was the Edward Hopper of American songwriters. Damn, that’s _perfect_. That’s exactly what Tom Petty was. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/43 "2017-10-23T19:02:55Z")
This thread brings up a lot of things I thought about when Petty died. I often have thought of him as similar to both Mellencamp and Springsteen. Moreso Springsteen and Mellencamp, but Petty belongs in that triad, as well. I have owned albums by all three, but only a few, and none of them were really favorites of mine. But then again, I’ve pretty much always preferred bands and groups over solo artists. And despite “The Heartbreakers” and “The E Street Band”, Petty and Springsteen have always been far more than members of their bands. I disagree that Springsteen is better, or more important, or more famous, than the other two. In fact, if I had to choose which of them I like best, I’d put him third in the list, with Petty first and Mellencamp second. But all three are talented songwriters and good artists, but none could really be called good singers. Mellencamp slurs his words and doesn’t really have much range, Petty sings through his nose and Springsteen went from a mumbler to a shouter (I hate the songs where he shouts, like Born in the USA). But all three wrote and performed songs that people can identify with, with slice of life stories. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/44 "2017-10-23T19:24:40Z")
If I had to choose one, I’d go with JCM. I just find his songs more enjoyable. Just my opinion - don’t think there’s a definitive right or wrong/which one was better kind of answer here. Truth be told, I find the two kind of opposites of each other. Petty’s early work was more punk rock, then more towards folk rock in his later years. JCM’s later stuff was harder edged than his first few records. Again, just how I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/45 "2017-10-23T22:18:24Z")
I’ll start by saying that I’m a big fan of both, and have seen them both live multiple times. Great shows, every one. So I’m not taking sides by any means, just saying what I find to be the biggest difference between them. Petty developed a signature sound — country flavored pop-rock with jangly guitar — and built a career around it. Mind you, it was a brilliant career full of excellent music, but I’d venture to say he seldom strayed terribly far from his successful formula. Mellencamp, on the other hand, has re-invented himself a number of times. From straight-ahead rock & roll, to zydeco-inspired instrumentation, to folksy ballads, to a Sun Records kind of sound, he seemed to tire easily of doing the same thing for too long. Not all of Mellencamp’s experimentation has been critically or commercially successful, but I doubt he cares much. He’s been busy making music to please himself, while Petty kept cranking out hit after hit. Not better or worse _per se_, but a definite difference in approach. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/46 "2017-10-24T01:32:36Z")
… > [@Wheelz](#): > > Petty developed a signature sound — country flavored pop-rock with jangly guitar — and built a career around it. Mind you, it was a brilliant career full of excellent music, but I’d venture to say he seldom strayed terribly far from his successful formula. I agree that Tom had a “formula” going…the jangly, country rock-esque sound served him well. The last two albums _ **Mojo** _ and _ **Hypnotic Eye** _(his only #1 album) were definitely change of pace. More bluesy, rocky and less jangly, they really have a different vibe from the previous albums. > [@](#): > > \*"Tom was a great classicist. He followed those forms pretty religiously. I veered slightly away from some of those things, into other things. But what was charming and exciting about the Heartbreakers was their formalism. It was kind of like the great bands of the Sixties, like the Beatles. It was a guitar band, something I envied very much. Because when we tried to push the guitars [in the E Street Band], it never quite worked for us. But they were a real guitar band. > > And the music was beautifully written, beautifully constructed. He had an ear to the classics. But Tom’s attitude and personality, his own vision, gave it a modern edge."\* > > –Bruce Springsteen ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/47 "2017-10-24T01:42:46Z")
Lame leading the lame. And Springsteen was crawling down the road ten feet in front. I hate all these guys. The guy who said “Springsteen was Dylan with a better voice and a better band,” screw off. You’re comparing Royal Crown Cola to Chateau Lafitte Rothschild. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/48 "2017-10-24T02:37:14Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Lame leading the lame. And Springsteen was crawling down the road ten feet in front. > > I hate all these guys. The guy who said “Springsteen was Dylan with a better voice and a better band,” screw off. You’re comparing Royal Crown Cola to Chateau Lafitte Rothschild. Parenthetically: Dylan liked Petty a great deal; they toured together in the 1980s, and, of course, were in the Traveling Wilburys together. Dylan played “I Won’t Back Down” at a concert on Saturday night: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFUrBPu4EaA&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFUrBPu4EaA&feature=youtu.be) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/49 "2017-10-24T09:52:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Mellencamp had very nice words about Tom Petty: > > “Tom Petty was the Edward Hopper of American songwriters. He was a certain kind of bird that had no legs, so he could never land on this earth; he lived his whole life in the sky. And now he will spread his wings and sleep on the wind. His name is written in the stars.” I was over in the Pit thread and thought about this. There, I wrote: Petty as Edward Hopper. Hmm. I would argue that JCM is Hopper - I see a remove to both of their works, although in the other thread, folks are offering examples otherwise. Tom Petty is, I dunno, Pony Boy. Or Steve Rogers pre Super Soldier injection. Norman Rockwell painting John Steinbeck scenes. **Uke** - dude, you feel better? I get all stabby when folks idolize Jim Morrison, so I hear you, but it’s uncommon to hear outright dismissal from you, especially when each has had a great ride career-wise. I’m not feeling a need to compare to Dylan. He was / is the most aged, complex bourbon; these guys are the beers you crack when you’re with friends - I love a great beer!! I was never a Springsteen guy - there’s Broadway in there, somewhere, and I hear it - but his ambition and what he went for lyrically - and very often achieved - damn. Gotta respect Jungleland, man. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/50 "2017-10-24T10:55:10Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I was over in the Pit thread and thought about this. There, I wrote: Petty as Edward Hopper. Hmm. I would argue that JCM is Hopper - I see a remove to both of their works, although in the other thread, folks are offering examples otherwise. Nah, Mellencamp isn’t Hopper. Hopper is much more remove than involvement, much more looking at the world from an angle that most of us don’t than one that most of us get to at least occasionally. That’s definitely Petty, but it really isn’t Mellencamp at all. I think one of the things that differentiate Mellencamp and Springsteen from Petty is that Bruce and JCM are much more emotionally involved with the people they’re observing. With Petty, distance is much more the norm. That’s not saying one’s better than the other. It’s why I prefer Springsteen and Mellencamp to Petty, and I could see how it might play into why Dylan felt a bond with Petty, but less so if at all with Springsteen and Mellencamp. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/51 "2017-10-24T12:53:22Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Nah, Mellencamp isn’t Hopper. Hopper is much more remove than involvement, much more looking at the world from an angle that most of us don’t than one that most of us get to at least occasionally. That’s definitely Petty, but it really isn’t Mellencamp at all. > > I think one of the things that differentiate Mellencamp and Springsteen from Petty is that Bruce and JCM are much more emotionally involved with the people they’re observing. \*\* With Petty, distance is much more the norm.\*\* > > That’s not saying one’s better than the other. It’s why I prefer Springsteen and Mellencamp to Petty, and I could see how it might play into why Dylan felt a bond with Petty, but less so if at all with Springsteen and Mellencamp. ::bolding mine: In many songs, Petty is the outsider\*, speaking directly to or about the person - ?? She’s a Woman in Love. You got Lucky. Don’t Come Around Here no More. \*unless of course he is The Insider: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7bjXWzms5I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7bjXWzms5I) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/52 "2017-10-24T16:24:25Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > ::bolding mine: > > In many songs, Petty is the outsider\*, speaking directly to or about the person - ?? She’s a Woman in Love. You got Lucky. Don’t Come Around Here no More. > > \*unless of course he is The Insider: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7bjXWzms5I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7bjXWzms5I) I thought Don’t Come Around and You Got Lucky were song from the first person perspective? ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/53 "2017-10-24T17:22:45Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I thought Don’t Come Around and You Got Lucky were song from the first person perspective? As well as “She’s a Women in love”, where the singer is directly describing his girlfriend leaving him for another man - Maybe I’m not getting the “??” annotation (opposite day symbol?) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/54 "2017-10-24T18:07:52Z")
Sorry if I am being confusing. I read **RTFirefly** ’s statement “With Petty, distance is much more the norm.” and was thinking about songs where he is writing about the song’s protagonist’s immediate feelings, or about what they are saying either directly to, or about a person in their life. To me, that doesn’t sound distant. He’s bitter that the Woman in Love didn’t pick him; he’s telling someone not to come around, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/55 "2017-10-24T21:52:21Z")
Yeah, Petty often crawls inside his characters–I don’t see a remoteness there at all. There are a handful of tracks like “American Girl” and “Into the Great Wide Open”, which are third person narratives, but most are very much first person and tuned into the emotional experience. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/56 "2017-10-24T22:24:40Z")
I should probably put this in the Other Petty Thread, but here in L.A. we honored him with a vampire walk down Ventura Boulevard. [Vampires ‘move west down Ventura Boulevard’ in Tom Petty tribute – Daily News](http://www.dailynews.com/2017/10/19/the-vampires-are-walkin-through-the-valley-as-tom-petty-tribute-gets-moving/) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/57 "2017-10-24T22:47:42Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I know we’re veering off topic, but at least 20 of his singles charted on Billboard’s Hot 100. Only two of those failed to crack the top 40 and 12 of them made the top 10. > > [Bruce Springsteen's 20 Biggest Billboard Hits](http://www.billboard.com/articles/list/6106510/bruce-springsteens-20-top-billboard-hit-songs-charts) Just for comparison’s sake, it looks like Springsteen’s “12 of them made the top 10” is what Petty and Mellencamp managed _put together_. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479/58 "2017-10-24T23:35:07Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > The difference between Petty and Mellencamp is demonstrated by the power of melody. Yes, lyrically and instrumentally the two are similar, but Mellencamp’s half-drunk, talky way of singing makes it hard for his melodies to ingrain themselves into the listener’s brain, much less survive the test of several decades. > > Petty, on the other hand, instantly established a strong melody, and sang it strongly (yes, he sometimes slurred, but he used it sparingly). That, to me, makes him the clear winner of this contest. I apologize, I wasn’t meaning to be dismissive of your take on the thread. I guess I just don’t pick up as clearly on this “half-drunk” “slurred” delivery of Mellencamp’s your’e referring to. To be clear, I don’t prefer one over the other, and I think their similarities outweigh their differences. Perhaps this is more a matter of either studio production (Tom’s music is “slicker”, so to speak) and the larger proliferation of electric versus acoustic guitars between the two. > [@WordMan](#): > > **Fois** , please go back and read this. **DWDiddy** is a trained professional (!) and knows what he’s talking about. Look at Little Pink Houses: JM’s delivery of the chorus - Ain’t that 'merica, homeuhdafree - has a good melody, but is slurred and a bit too cool for its own good. Compare that to his own Jack and Diane, a fucking brilliant song - I’d say his best as an Indiana Springsteen - where he drills the chorus into your brain. > > Petty’s songs had equally good bones, but more commercial choruses. His Refugee has the same urgent earworm quality that Jack and Diane does. I would assert that Petty had more of those. > > Did Mellancamp ever express personal loneliness or bitterness or was he always the voice of the small town? I don’t get that introspective feeling from him - at all - and I feel that is a key difference-maker between him and Petty. And also, where is Mellancamp’s song of transcendence? Of personal discovery? Where’s his Free Fallin? When I mentioned “Pink Houses”, I felt there was a loneliness quality to the tune, or at least an element of resignation, like when Mellencamp sings “…probably die in a small town, that’s probably where they’ll bury me” has the elements of simultaneous satisfaction at the “better” life of small town living/dying coupled with grasping with one’s mortality…but that’s just my interpretation. Also, I beg to disagree with “Free Falling” being “transcendent” in any way other than it being Petty’s biggest hit. It always seemed to be a bit disjointed lyrically to me, like being a good girl that’s crazy about Elvis has anything to do with the feeling of free falling. I do love the line about the “vampires move west down Ventura Boulevard”. I like them both equally. In addition to Mellencamp having an unreal drummer, I suppose the other primary difference in them is the actual sound of their voices. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tom-petty-versus-john-mellencamp/799479.md?page=2)