Right. A Thompson/M3 (.45ACP) or Sten/Uzi/MP5 (9x19mm) fires the standard pistol round of their respective militaries.
In German in fact you commonly use the term “machine pistol” for these, thus MP5; in English people instead use that term colloquially to refer to very short versions or to full-auto versions of more traditional one-hander pistols.
Yep- in one interesting afternoon, I fired a STEN, a Thompson, a German MP-40 and a M3A1 “Grease gun”.
Of all four, the STEN was by FAR the most accurate and controllable. But not a little bit janky- it seemed to literally be some pipes welded together with a handful of other parts with springs and stuff showing, and the magazine stuck out the side.
The Thompson (Tommy Gun) was by far the best finished of the bunch, with walnut stock, pistol grip and foregrip, and nicely Parkerized metal. Heavy, and as a consequence controllable, but not as accurate as the STEN. But better than the other two by a long chalk. The MP-40 was lighter, and fired 9mm, so slightly less controllable than the Thompson, but was uncomfortable to hold. The M3A1 Grease gun was just awful- it kicked a lot, was hard to keep on target, and even when you were careful and popped off single shots (you could do that, as the cyclic rate wasn’t very high), it STILL wouldn’t hit where you aimed. After a burst, it looked more like firing a shotgun at something than firing an aimed gun.
My Dad, a WW2 Vet and weapons expert, cordially hated the Grease Gun aka M3 submachine gun. He liked the Thomson, but said the drum magazine was no good in battle, too fiddly and apt to get dirt, etc in it. He prefered the M1 carbine, and of course the Garand.
[quote=“Corry_El, post:17, topic:838154”]
This US WWII training film shows differently among M3, Thompson and MP40. M3 put the most rounds in a target of the three. Doesn’t include Sten.
[/QUOTE]Yes, that was propaganda to get the troops to accept it. It was a LOT cheaper and faster to make, however.
The M3 was chambered for the same .45 ACP round fired by the Thompson submachine gun, but was cheaper to produce and lighter, although, contrary to popular belief, it was less accurate.[11] This myth stems from a US Army training film portraying the M3 as more accurate than its counterparts.[12]
My Dad said it was terribly unreliable. That was apparently rectified in later models.
if you read the Wiki page you can see the history of it’s reliability issues.
I have read and watched vids that claim “more accurate” for both, so it seems about the same.
Yep, My Dad agreed. But it was more reliability in early models than accuracy.
Many of the Bren guns were made in Peterborough, Ontario at the Inglis factory. Older Canuck Dopers may remember Inglis household appliances. Women were employed on the assembly line, in part, as the head of company boasted in 1938, because they could be paid less than men. One of them, Veronica Foster, became known in PR campaigns as “Ronnie the Bren Gun Girl” and predated the US Rosie the Riveter. She was often portrayed having a lively social life…you didn’t have to give up fun to go to work on the line. There’s a Wikipedia entry on her, and more images on line
I was at school in the 50s and was a member of the Army Cadets. Most of the time we had antique pre-war weapons but eventually, they gave us some 303 Lee-Enfields and I became fairly proficient with them. In my final years, we acquired a couple of Brens and even though ammunition was strictly rationed we were able to use them for target shooting.
The Bren, although a bit prone to jamming if not cared for, was highly accurate. My own experience bore this out as I could easily put 10 holes on the bull of a target at 500 yards using the fitted bipod and iron sights. This was actually one of the drawbacks as the best use of a machine gun is spraying bullets at the opposition.
Seriously? With a .45 at 500 yards?
Most pistol-caliber carbines struggle with anything over about 150 meters. How’d you pull that off?
The Bren is/was a .303.
CMC fnord!
Oof. I misread Bob++’s post. I thought he was saying he could hit the bullseye from 500 yards with an M3 grease gun. I misread.
But a Bren gun could totally hit a target from 500 yards.
I retract my question. 